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Author Topic: Cinema shows Flat film in Scope - Nobody notices! Andy Muirhead Master Film Handler Posts: 323 From: Galashiels, Scotland Registered: Dec 2000 posted 12-10-2002 07:01 PM                     It's amazing what some cinemas can get away away with! A few weeks ago I got a call at work from another local cinema, a single screen part time site. It was the new manager/projectionist in a bit of a panic (I think he only had a few weeks on the job)! He asked me whether 'Mr Deeds' was a flat or scope film. When I said it was flat, he just kind of made this anguished groan and said 'shit' a lot! So I asked what was up, and he tells me that the cans said scope, so he started in scope. I asked him how long it has been running like that and how busy the house was, and he said he'd been running 20 minutes and it was a fairly busy show!! So naturally my advice was to stop, change plates and lenses, etc. And now! I can't remember at the moment the machine they use, but it's one of the ones where the plate drops into the gate vertically, so you can't change on the fly. Anyway, he hangs up, hopefully I'm thinking to set things right. Since this particular cinema is in the town I live, and about two minutes from my house, I dropped in on my way home that night to see how it went and to find out why such an arse-up happened. When I arrived I went straight up to the booth to check the cans. I saw straight away what his confusion was about the cans - You know how on some cans both ratios are marked, then one is scored out leaving the correct ratio? Well this is one of those cans where none of the ratios were scored out. So he saw 1.85 on one side and SCOPE on the other - he probably didn't know what the hell 1.85 meant, and saw SCOPE so he figured it was scope. Like I said, he was only about two weeks into the job. So after I left the booth, I went to find this guy to find out how he solved the problem - This is the real killer here guys! Apparently he phoned the Manager, who was on holiday, explained the problem and the manager said - Carry on with the show! So, That night, the audience were treated to a showing of 'Mr Deeds' with scope plates and lenses in, the entire film! And you know what? Not ONE of the audience noticed a thing, or at least didn't mention it as the guy made a point of hanging about as the audience left in case there were any complaints! AMAZING what some places can get away with!  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-10-2002 07:26 PM                        The audience, being Adam Sandler fans, probably thought it was supposed to be that way....  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-10-2002 07:42 PM                     I have heard of a theatre in Pasadena, CA that was running 'Mission:Impossible' for who knows how long with the flat lens, no anamorphic!!! -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-10-2002 07:50 PM                     Well, granted that this kind of fuck up never should have been made, in a case like this you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. So you blew it when you didn't double check the film format before the show started. People are going to have to see at least some of the movie in the wrong format. On turret mounted lenses, you can quickly switch lenses/apertures and there's only about a 5 second interruption. It still counts as an interruption and it should be noted as such in the booth log book but it's a minor one. Now, when you don't have a turret projector the thing gets more complicated. If you have one like a Simplex where it only takes a second to swap apertures and maybe 10 seconds to swap lenses you're still in about the same position... Bite the bullet, make the swap and log it. When you have a projector that you can't quickly swap lenses/apertures on, you're in a pickle. If it was me, I'd stop the machine, make the switch and take the blame from the customers. If any of them complained I'd make good with a rain check, etc. (We had one manager who would sign the rain checks and make the projectionist give them to the customers if it was his fault!) All that, having been said, one thing that could have been done was for the projectionist (manager?) to monitor the movie for a minute before walking away from the projector. Maybe, just maybe, he could have caught the mistake in the previews, BEFORE the feature began! I have an unwritten rule that I believe even the most stalwart can live by: "You are allowed ONE mistake IF you catch it before the previews end."  |  IP: Logged Adam Martin I'm not even gonna point out the irony. Posts: 3686 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 12-10-2002 07:51 PM                     Once upon a time, I was at an 8-plex in a town where we had a 3-plex subrun house. A group of our employees went to the 3-plex on a Sunday night to watch a show that had played at our theater a few months prior. Reels 3 and 4 were reversed, so the film played out of order the entire weekend. Without complaints. Go figure. I don't remember what the film was, but it was a busy one for that theater.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 12-10-2002 09:12 PM                        "Star Trek 6", Cinemark Movies 12 in Springfield, Friday night sellout crowd in their THX house (which was a joke but that's another story). Feature starts and I realize immediately that they're using the flat lens (I am so smart). I was with a group of friends and didn't want to make a scene, and I figured the booth would fix it right away, so I didn't say anything. Well, the credits finished and the action started, and everything was obviously squished on the screen, but not 1 person said anything or got up and reported it. I finally reported it and they fixed it right away (screen went dark for a couple seconds), but I have no doubt that the rest of the audience thought the intrepid crew of the Enterprise was just caught in some kind of wormhole or reverse-tachyon field or something and that's how it was supposed to look...  |  IP: Logged Mike Rendall Film Handler Posts: 78 From: Southampton, Hampshire, UK Registered: Nov 2002 posted 12-11-2002 05:11 AM                     The worst thing I had was just the other day, I was showing a Czech movie (Little Otik) which was in full frame flat. It was marked up as 1.85:1 on the reels and hence I played it in that -except- that the subtitles were right at the bottom of the frame, so it was a choice, either play it so you can see the subtitles, or play it so you can see the heads.. I chose the subtitles, I had a few complaints from the audience (It is a film society so nearly all people think they know everything about films). The really really really annoying thing is, that the euro lens that I have had on back order arrived the day after!! The thing is that many cinemas I know only have two lenses, flat and scope, so how do they get away with this. For a full complement of supported ratios, we did have lenses for the following ratios 35mm 1.33:1 (std), 1.66:1 (Euro), 1.75:1 (UK Widescreen), 1.85:1 (US Widescreen), 2.39:1 (Cinemascope). As we are in a new venue with a new machine we have had to order loads of new lenses including 70mm! I suppose many theatres don't show too many non-blockbuster films so only need flat and scope, In the UK when you show foreign films you generally need the full complement. Mike  |  IP: Logged Jeff Stricker Master Film Handler Posts: 481 From: Calumet, Mi USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 12-11-2002 05:46 AM                     A little off the subject, but I've noticed that some of the new 16:9 TV's STRETCH the 4:3 standard programs to fill the screen!  |  IP: Logged Brad Haven Master Film Handler Posts: 300 From: fremantle, West Australia Registered: Aug 2001 posted 12-11-2002 05:55 AM                     SNAP! We had a couple of screenings of LITTLE OTIK about 6 months ago, the projectionist who made it up thought we would get away with it in 1.85:1 . He didn't think to warn me and when i came on screen it was plainly obvious, so all i could do at the time was rack it up for the subtitles, i hung around after the screening and explained to those who complained and handed out comp's. Luckily we had another screening a week later, so i rang around and borrowed a lens for STD and used our scope aperture, it looked great, a minor satisfaction after the embarrassment of before On another occasion, at another cinema, we had a projectionist who made up THE USUAL SUSPECTS in the wrong order for a once only screening, the manager at the time thought that we'll see what happens...out of over 200 people only two complained (seen it before), so the management hushed it up and quietly gave the ones who noticed comps. There were a few staff members in the audience (film buffs) who came out raving about how great the film was, we told them about the mix up though. The projectionist got a written warning for that one (he had done it before) . Yes i have mixed up a film before, my famous STAR TREK FESTIVAL DEBACLE  |  IP: Logged Barry Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Newington, CT USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-11-2002 08:46 AM                        Given the above listed experiences, what are people's opinions on "test-screenings" of new prints? In my 20-plex, I would receive between 2-10 new prints per week and always worked my hardest to have them screened by staff before Friday (or Wednesday for early releases). There were a few different ways we did this, but what ended up being the best method was: Build up as soon as the print arrives. We received prints from ETS (Fox, Paramount, New Line, Warner Bros.) two days before release and Technicolor came in the day before release. This way not all movies (usually) had to be built/screened the same night. This also helped us order any trailers that were not enclosed/shipped and were supposed to be. Try and screen the print in the house it was playing in. We had 10 SDDS houses and 10 Dolby houses, so this would help us make sure the soundtrack playing on Friday/Wednesday was the same that was screened. Also helped avoid an extra print move. Only one staff member allowed per screening until all are taken. Often we would have 50 people in something like Star Wars and nobody wanting to watch something like Crossroads. It seems a bit mean, but I always tried to BEG someone to switch over before I put my foot down and wouldn't start the stacked movie until the unpopular one was started. I cannot imagine my booth running as smoothly as it did without those screenings. So many reels I found mislabeled, aspect ratios printed incorrectly, scratches here and there, etc. and I was often able to get a new reel/what I needed by opening day. Of course, in a booth with trainees and less time for hands-on print inspection I imagine this to be even more valuable. My first make-up I built The Messenger: Joan of Arc with reels 5-7 swapped. I was actually the one screening the print and almost couldn't tell myself that the storyline was out of order. The way the reels were cut it just made it seem like a sort of flash-back/forward. Upon investigation, the reel leader was mislabeled. From that moment on I knew I was going to LOVE Technicolor.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 12-11-2002 09:07 AM                    IMDb describes Otesánek ("Little Otik") as 1.37 : 1.  |  IP: Logged Brad Haven Master Film Handler Posts: 300 From: fremantle, West Australia Registered: Aug 2001 posted 12-11-2002 09:57 AM                     Isn't STD (standard) another name for 1.37:1, or are you referring to something else  |  IP: Logged Mike Rendall Film Handler Posts: 78 From: Southampton, Hampshire, UK Registered: Nov 2002 posted 12-11-2002 11:39 AM                     1.3x :1 is standard. We (as of yet) do not have a standard lens, although thinking about it, I could have used the scope backing lens and scope gate after removing the anamorph....... That would have been much better than playing it though in USWs. Ah, Hindsight is a blessed thing. With regards to the other posters comments about test screening, we only show a film once (occasionally twice if it is a big feature). We hand inspect all reels for damage and every splice is checked and if necessary remade so that the feature would technically be perfect. We also do not have the luxury of having the theatre outside of presentation hours due to the multipurpose aspect. But in the case I mentioned above it would have been better. I was a little rushed when I spooled it and the fact that all the reel cans had been shattered (It looks like it had been literally dropped off the back of a lorry). This is one of the main problems with art house features in the UK, there are normally only one or two prints available after its initial release and these do the rounds for years and obviously it only takes one badly trained operator to completely ruin the print. (as was our case). anyway, not wanting to moan too much, it did look like it had been film guarded as it was silent though the gate and the picture in the middle of the reels was spot on.  |  IP: Logged Charles Everett Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: New Jersey Registered: May 2001 posted 12-11-2002 01:24 PM                     When the AMC Hamilton played Gosford Park last winter, the trailer pack included a flat/letterboxed trailer for The Rookie. The booth staff didn't check the leader and/or the rating card before adding the trailer. Yes, the rating card comes off at AMC, but if you see a squeezed rating card when you build a trailer pack you should know the trailer is scope. This also happens in converse. On opening day of Jackie Brown (flat ratio) the General Cinema Bridgewater Commons ran it with a scope trailer for Palmetto. That was Xmas Day 1997.  |  IP: Logged William Leland III Master Film Handler Posts: 336 From: Charleston, SC, Registered: Aug 2002 posted 12-11-2002 02:43 PM                        We had Shrek playing and I looked in on it after the trailers went threw, and some how it switched lens (scope). So I switched it back and walked away. I got a call from management saying Shrek "looked funny". So I ran back, checked it, everything fine. 5 minutes went by and another call about Shrek looking funny. Checked it and it was ok. Another 5 minutes passed and again same call about Shrek. So my manager came into booth and asked what's wrong? I told him about the lens switch and now everything was fine. He told me to switch back to scope format, thinking the customer thinks shrek is shown in scope, instead of flat. I switched back to scope and no more complaints. How funny is that.  |  IP: Logged

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