my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Schinler's List Red Girl Scene (Page 1)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Author Topic: Schinler's List Red Girl Scene Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-17-2002 02:19 PM                     Hi Again, A school asked for a special show of Schindler's List for the film club. During the show I noticed at the scene where Liam Neeson is overlooking the Getto takeover and watching the young girl in the red dress, each time the shot changes from Liam to the coloured girl, there is a splice. I know is a bit old film but can anyone explain why? Demetris  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-17-2002 02:45 PM                     IF I remember right... "Schindler" was filmed and printed on black and white stock for most of the movie. The few scenes that are supposed to be in color were filmed on color stock. Thus, when there's a transition between b/w and color there is a splice because that's where they joined the two stocks in the release print. They could have just made the negatives in B/W and printed to color stock but that wouldn't have given as good a result as if they had used black and white print film.  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 12-17-2002 02:56 PM                     I think a better solution would have been to print most of the film on B&W stock, but use all color stock for that one sequence (instead of cutting back and forth). true, the B&W shots in this sequence would look a little different, but the problem was, that unless the theatre was using DTS (I THINK that was the only format for the film), the constant cuts would have been distracting. Also, many theatres had projectors that JUMPED at every splice anyway (including one I saw the film from). I also remember this film opening and closing in color.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 12-17-2002 02:58 PM                    Didn't they do the general release (North America) on all color stock due to the focus shift between stocks? Besides simply being different stock there are heat issues with B&W film as the silver image absorbs IR while on color film the IR sails right on through the dye image (this being the reason for special handling during processing of the analog soundtrack region of color film to retain the silver in that area).  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-17-2002 04:29 PM                        I wrote about the focus issues with intercutting color and B&W film in Kodak's "Film Notes for Reel People", Spring 1994: http://www.film-tech.com/manuals/H5033.pdf  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 12-17-2002 05:54 PM                    Nope, it was Black and White mixed with color film for the sequences that had the color mixed in. If they had printed the black and white onto color for the entire film it would of had that tinted feel to it. That movie also shedded like a son of o bitch with extreme dandruff.  |  IP: Logged Ian Price Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1714 From: Denver, CO Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-17-2002 06:01 PM                     The initial release was Black and White stock with the color bits spliced in. After 4-weeks they replaced all the prints with color stock prints. There as a visual difference. The black and white stock looked much better. And yes, they shreaded like a bitch.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-17-2002 06:22 PM                     The print of "Schindler's List" I watched at GCC Northpark Mall theater in Dallas was a mix of B&W and color stock. But I remember the visual difference being apparant in whole reels. The first and last reels of the movie, as well as the reel with the "red dress" cue in it were color stock. Those reels had kind of a slightly blue-ish tint to them that looked different from the rest of the film. All the other reels had black and white stock --at least I am pretty darned sure of it. The look of it gave me art school flashbacks from foundation year and all that B&W still work I had to do. I can still remember that wierd pickle smell of the chemicals to this day. Nonetheless, "Schindler's List" looked excellent at that theater. If the entire print that played at Northpark in Dallas was on color stock, then there was some kind of serious color timing problem with certain reels.  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 12-17-2002 06:29 PM                     All three prints i saw (GCC Beverly Connection, Los Angeles, Edwards Town Center, Valencia, and UA East Hills, Bakersfield) were with the B&Wn prints with the color sequences spliced in. Focusing seemed to be a problem at all three theatres, as were the jumps with the splicing. Fortunately all three theatres were running DTS systems.  |  IP: Logged Gerard S. Cohen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 975 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 12-17-2002 06:54 PM                     I ran Schindler's list when first released, three shows per day for four months. It was our second DTS film. The girl in the red coat, the candle lighting at the kiddush blessing near the end, and the final scene at the cemetery are the color shots I remember. I don't remember any distraction caused by splices. Nor was their any shedding of the print in the Century JJ. Incidentally, several classes from a neighborhood school were brought to the theatre by their teachers who developed a unit on the historical subject. I started a bulletin board of photos, reviews, comments and clippings on the filmmaker, the film, and the subject. It grew to some twelve feet in length in the lobby, and when the feature shipped out, I donated the display to the school. We received a second, edited set of DTS disks, so I kept the first set as a souvenir. The manager kept those of our first DTS--Jurassic Park.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-17-2002 10:17 PM                        I don't quite understand why there would be a problem with analog sound at the splices. I make splices every day and they are totally silent on the analog track. I take it all the color sequences had to be manually spliced in, no? No automation doing the inserts, right? So you just need good splicers, good splicing tape and someone who has been trained well. When considering that there had to be upwards of thousands of prints for this engagement and each with, what was it, 3 or 4 sequences? This must have been one daunting project. Surely it wasn't left up to Technicolor to splice in the color sequences, was it? Personally I thought the switch to color was way out in left field -- much too much of a gimmick and a distraction calling attention to itself, and I didn't think it fit the feel of the rest of the film. It works in WIZARD OF OZ and PLEASANTVILLE, but not here. But that's just my taste. Plus, I feel sorry for those hundreds of TES employees splicing all those reels and trying to keep rolls of B&W and color segments all in order. That must have looked like a Marxs Brothers sequence itself. Frank  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 12-17-2002 10:22 PM                     THere were some cheap projectors out there that caused the image to jump at every splice (even when splicing reels together). Why I don't know. I can't really say what the movie sounded like in analog, since all screenings I saw were in DTS. Of course focusing was off a bit, due to the thinner nature of the b&W film (theatres received bulletins to notify theaters of some of these problems, but apparently went unheeded in some cases...what a surprise!  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 12-18-2002 04:42 AM                     Gerard wrote: quote: the candle lighting at the kiddush blessing near the end Wasn't this at the start of the film? I don't remember a similar scene near the end, but it's several years since I last saw the film. The prints we had here in the uk were spliced, at least the ones I saw were. The trailer was printed on Agfa stock, and I'm almost certain that the prints were as well. The negative edge print was Kodak, I don't know which lab made the prints, but they looked supurb. The colour scenes were a problem, There was a very clear difference in the look of the film where it was printed on colour stock, you could always tell when the girl in the red coat was about to be seen as a few seconds before, at the start of the scene, the colour stock would cut in, the image would take on an unpleasant greenish tone, and the look of dye was quite different to that of silver. I don't know what the answer is to this problem; I would hate to have seen the whole film printed on colour stock. Maybe the whole film could be printed on black and white stock, and the red coat added by dye transfer, a bit like a modern-day Pathecolour, but Technicolor weren't doing dye transfer at the time. I have the laserdisc of the film, and they have managed to match the scenes quite well in the video transfer, but I don't know what that was made from. A few years ago in the Projected Picture Trust exhibit at Bletchley Park, a print was being run which had been made for the now closed Museum of the Moving Image, in London. This print contained short clips from various films, mainly black and white, but had obviously been printed on colour stock. I asked Charles Beddow about this, and he said that it was done because there were problems with running black and white stock on the continuous loop platters in use at the museum. Does anyone know what these problems may have been. Leo, maybe you know something about this. I saw the film twice, once in DTS, and once in SR, and there were no problems with the sound in either case. I also projected the film once, using the analogue track, again without problems. I made a point of listening for any difference in sound between the silver only and silver plus dye parts of the track; you don't often get to hear a pure silver print of a modern track. There was a slight difference, but I don't think I would have noticed it if I wasn't looking for it. There were no pops, clicks etc. at the splices, I don't remember if they were blooped or not. The first can contained a printed request that the film be shown without an interval wherever possible. Unfortunately, this was not possible at this venue, as it now has only a single projector, and the tower can't take a film of this length.. I seem to remember that, strangely, two versions of one part were supplied, one with an intermission title on the end, and the other without; I've never seen this done before. Mention has been made of the prints shedding bady. Does this mean that the prints were polyester? If so, did this apply to both black and white and colour stocks? I'm pretty sure that the British prints were triacetate.  |  IP: Logged Stan Gunn Expert Film Handler Posts: 176 From: Clematis, in the hills near Melbourne Australia Registered: Aug 2000 posted 12-18-2002 04:53 AM                        I ran list on its release here in oz. It was all on colour stock, the word at the time was that it presented many problems in the processing.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-18-2002 08:42 AM                        As I recall, the prints were triacetate. It was especially important to edgewax the B&W prints (SMPTE Recommended Practice RP151) to minimize emulsion-side shedding in some projectors. I wrote about the issues with B&W and "Schindler's List" in the October 1994 issue of Kodak's "Film Notes for Reel People": http://www.film-tech.com/manuals/H5034.pdf Black-and-white images can be printed onto color film, but the image will usually have a slight tint, since color print film is optimized for color images, with slightly warm highlights and cool shadows. Even one "printer point" of color variation in the printer setup is noticeable with a black-and-white image printed to a color print.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.