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Author Topic: too much cutting? Christopher Dreiling Film Handler Posts: 5 From: Santa Ana, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2003 posted 02-10-2003 12:26 AM                     I have just started running the projector at school and I would like to differentiate bad information from good handling practices. When building I was told after separating the print from the leader to cut the frame off on the print that contains tape then splice the reels together. Now I am thinking if every theater does this there will be an awful gap in the audio over time. I would like to make the best presentation possible and want to pass on a good print to the next theater. Is it better to clean as much tape off then splice it rather than cutting frames for a good splice?  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 02-10-2003 12:40 AM                     quote: Is it better to clean as much tape off then splice it rather than cutting frames for a good splice? ABSOLUTELY! It's criminal to just cut back in from the last splice!!!!! Look under the Tips sectopn of this site for more info on proper print building procedures. and welcome aboard! -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Mathew Molloy Master Film Handler Posts: 357 From: The Santa Cruz Mountains Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-10-2003 01:10 AM                     If there's tape goo left over on the frame it can be removed with a touch of lighter fluid applied with a soft cloth. Lighter Fluid works well for cleaning splicers as well. However, since the introduction of Filmguard, I've been using that for those jobs.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 02-10-2003 09:54 AM                        "Film Done Right" does everything possible to preserve continuity and not lose frames. Carefully peel off tape splices and remove any sticky adhesive with a solvent-based film cleaner. Resplice the correct leaders on with a pin-registered splicer and high quality splicing tape.  |  IP: Logged Dustin Mitchell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1865 From: Mondovi, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 02-10-2003 11:26 AM                     If you get a reel with the leaders properly re-attached (singled sided splice with clear tape) it is actually easier and faster to peel the tape off than it is to make a new cut. I generaly deal with virgin prints so I don't have a lot of experience with second run. From what I am told, however, most prints don't come like that. Usually masking tape is used to re-attach the leaders and that's where the goo comes from. As stated before, lighter fluid works well for cleaning the splices. Filmgaurd is better but whether or not you can afford it on your budget might be a problem. For a greater understanding of how removing frames from the ends of reels can affect your presentation see the thread ID Frames Affect on Sound. It should be close to the top of the first page in this forum.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 02-10-2003 08:30 PM                    Indeed, this has been argued endlessly in other threads including the recent one about affect on sound. In a nutshell, the argument against is the sound disruption (moreso than picture) on a poorly edited film. The argument in favor of leaving a single frame with the leader is the positive ID it provides the next person to ensure that the leader is on the correct reel. Either way, it's decision made by the first person building the print to a platter or giant reel system. But never never never more than a single frame and if you're building a print that has had the leaders cut off before you should clean off any old tape or tape residue (not to mention masking tape) and not remove any additional frames except in the case where there is physical damage. Some of the awful things you will see if you're working with prints that have been, as Steve Guttag likes to say, "previously enjoyed" are ones where the first builder made their cut half a dozen frames or so into the film. Or prints that have been built many times and each person made a new cut one frame over from the prior guy, because they are too lazy to peel splicing tape. You can remove and toss the collection of single frames as those are of no use to anyone (well, maybe eBay!). But please don't do more damage yourself! And then there are those who cut off a fade out or fade in because they can't see the framelines. NO NO NO! If you can't see the frameline well tough you're just going to have to hold it up against some leader or sit there and count off 4 perforation intervals. No excuse to cut just out of shear laziness. And finally there are the folks whose idea of breaking down the film involves winding til a shipping reel is full and cutting at any old place. Strictly speaking if the next run is also on a platter the show will run ok but heaven forbid if a reel gets mangled and replacement ordered for then the print will either be missing some footage or some will be duplicated. Not to mention the confusion it will cause someone looking at ID frames (if any) on the leaders and wondering why they don't match.  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-10-2003 08:54 PM                     Hi Christopher Welcome aboard! I was just wondering what sort of films you are running there? What sort of projector? Good luck with the new 'job'.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 02-11-2003 07:56 AM                        If you cut out frames of picture or sound, it's gone from that print forever. If everyone does it every time the film is spliced, those cuts add up. "Film Done Right" preserves continuity. Cutting a film with anything other than a pin-registered splicer blade on the frameline will normally require discarding at least two frames.  |  IP: Logged John Spooner Expert Film Handler Posts: 186 From: South Australia, Australia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 02-11-2003 09:17 AM                     Dear Christopher, welcome aboard as the other people have stated. Besides not losing frames at the head (start) of each spool, also take care not to lose frames unnecessarily at the foot (end) of each reel. This is to prevent eventual loss of the change-over cues which are still used by quite a few cinemas who use spools or change-over systems. Nothing looks worse than cues scratched or gouged onto the print. Regards. John Spooner. South Australia.  |  IP: Logged Christopher Dreiling Film Handler Posts: 5 From: Santa Ana, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2003 posted 02-11-2003 01:29 PM                     quote: Welcome aboard! I was just wondering what sort of films you are running there? What sort of projector? I am glad to be here! I have gotten much use out of the forums and online manuals. I also have discovered some handling flaws that have been passed down over time. But it is good to question authority. I am running films for the film history class, Vertigo, Some Like It Hot, 40 Guns, etc. "We" have a Christie AW3R platter and a Simplex XL projector. Unfortunately "we" are running only in stereo.  |  IP: Logged Mathew Molloy Master Film Handler Posts: 357 From: The Santa Cruz Mountains Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-11-2003 03:10 PM                     Aren't all those films you listed Mono anyway?  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-11-2003 06:05 PM                        The restored version of Vertigo which was released a few years ago was 70mm DTS and had a remixed 5.1 track. I assume that the 35mm prints of this are also available in DTS. Please take extra-special care with those repertory prints. There are relatively few of them and most distributors (with the notable exception of Warner Classics) won't be reprinting them until the existing prints are literally unrunnable.  |  IP: Logged Christopher Dreiling Film Handler Posts: 5 From: Santa Ana, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2003 posted 02-12-2003 04:37 AM                     quote: Aren't all those films you listed Mono anyway? I only project for the film history class. Current movies are shown during the week that take advantage of this new fangled stereo. The 35 of Vertigo is in DTS. I was happy to receive a new print. I watched it twice, just to make sure it ran ok.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 02-12-2003 06:44 AM                        Christopher: Please give some more details about your school's theatre. How many seats? What size screen? Can you play any of the digital sound formats? What specific sound equipment? Since you evidently show a print only a few times, why did they decide to install a platter rather than use changeovers?  |  IP: Logged Christopher Dreiling Film Handler Posts: 5 From: Santa Ana, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2003 posted 02-19-2003 03:30 PM                     Details Theater is a school lecture hall with sloped seating for about 100. Screen perforated roll up type and is about 12x20 feet. Projectors are 44 feet from screen and there are two Simplex XLs. Sound Equipment is Ultra Stereo JS-200 cinema processor and Ultra Stereo DSP-60 cinema processor. I am not sure why the platter is used rather than the change over, but it may have something to do with inexperienced student projectionist.  |  IP: Logged

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