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Author Topic: REALLY high gain screen Michael Rourke Expert Film Handler Posts: 159 From: San Luis Obispo, Central Coast of CA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 02-13-2003 01:34 PM                     I was at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES)in January and there was a display for digital projectors for home theaters and they were projecting onto these screens that were coated with a reflective paint with aluminum flakes in it. The picture was so bright it would allow for viewing in a bright room. I even walked about 50 feet away from this screen that was only about 6' by 4' and it still looked great and I could easily read the credits of the movie they were showing, I wonder if they could be used in our application, or if it was only good with a pixilated image (DLP), they weren't made with holes in them either which would have to be done so the speakers can be behind the screen. Anyway upon seeing this I wanted to go grind up some soda cans and repaint the drive in screen in my town. I failed to ask if these screens could be cleaned if they were to get something spit or hurled upon them, and I assume that water would be very bad for them which would rule out any permanent outdoor setup. Does anyone have anymore information on these? Maybe have one in their home theater?  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-13-2003 01:44 PM                     What did the picture look like when it was viewed at a sharp angle - say about 45 degrees off center?? There is several advertizement screens that are extremely bright, also. Too bright, in fact. One of those are in the southbound lanes of I-5 one mile from the "Executive washrooms" in the northbound lanes north of Tacoma. I think it was LED's and about 1/2 mile away, the resolution looked better than some drive-in theatre screens. The picture was beautiful! And, I might add this: they were moving scenes such as dancing beer bottles, horseback riding in the country, you name it. Furthermore, the picture did not "fall apart" as the sign was approached. It looks like the maintenance is very high to keep it running. More often that not, there is a block of lights in that picture that seem to be stuck on one color. Two things come to mind: (1) That sign must be an electronic masterpiece, and (2) It must really suck the electrical power. If someone told me that sign sucked 3 megawatts of power over a 24 hour period, it would not surprise me. Even the big ones in Las Vegas would not hold a candle to this one for picture clarity and brightness. I understand the WADOT tried to get the owners to dim it down a little, as it was a major distraction to the drivers on the freeway, and apparently it has caused some wrecks. On rainy nights when the rain falls like cats and dogs, the reflection on the pavement is so strong you can't see where the hell you are going. Greg and Jack, you know which one I am talking about. Just exactly, what is that thing?  |  IP: Logged Michael Rourke Expert Film Handler Posts: 159 From: San Luis Obispo, Central Coast of CA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 02-13-2003 02:02 PM                     It looked fine at an angle, it was a curved screen and it was sharply focused all the way across. I'm pretty sure it was an American company that made the screen, but the booth was for the digital projector company based in Korea.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-13-2003 02:26 PM                     Cool! I wonder how long it will last.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 02-13-2003 04:10 PM                        A very high gain aluminized surface, when properly curved, can be very efficient, allowing high image light levels while rejecting stray light. But even with curving, the screen is quite directional. Kodak once sold a solid aluminized screen for A/V applications known as the "Ektalite" screen. Its size was limited to about 50 x 50 inches since it was a solid material curved in a compound curve to optimize the reflection pattern.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 02-13-2003 05:30 PM                        quote: from Paul... Greg and Jack, you know which one I am talking about. Just exactly, what is that thing? I sure do, Paul... that thing is a blowtorch... and usually too bright at night (still). I also think your observations about the thing would be right on. It's in a really prime location, probably cost a zillion bucks to buy & install, & I wouldn't even want to think about the maintnenance. One thing that probably indicates the cost as well as anything is the fact that the screen on the other side (facing North) is much smaller, seems to have fewer colors (though that might be a technical issue) and doesn't have the resolution the South screen has. As for cost... I wonder if the fact that they've been running a lot of "advertise here... call 1-800-XXX..." means something????  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-13-2003 06:07 PM                     yeah, just to pay the power bill.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 02-13-2003 06:16 PM                        quote: from Michael R... ...upon seeing this I wanted to go grind up some soda cans and repaint the drive in screen in my town.... and I assume that water would... rule out any permanent outdoor setup. Michael, there used to be a company by the name of Spatz that made a metallized paint for drive-in screens. However, many drive-ins... and now pretty much all of them (now than Spatz is out of business) just use a good quality flat white latex... though a few have their own "secret formulas". Kelly Moore & Sherwin Williams both have good products, which is basically nothing more than the white tinting base they use. As for using metalized paint, you'd have to be careful not to put it on a screen that wasn't angled to the booth properly. A lot of drive-in screens are installed straight up & down... and if you have a situation like ours, where the booth has been moved, you could have the screen reflecting too much light at the playground, rather than at the cars where you wanted it. For the most part though, if a drive-in isn't dealing with a lot of ambient light, it's more often a matter of underlamping, infrequent bulb changes and/or shot reflectors that causes the lousy pictures at some places. There are a lot of 'em out there that are using the original reflector that came with the lamp they used to upgrade from carbon... and if it's not always a matter of the owner just being cheap, it's likely he doesn't know any better... they deteriorate so slowly. (A lot of 'em get cheap pretty fast though, when you suggest they shell out around 3 grand for a new bulb & reflector!  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 02-14-2003 03:57 AM                     John wrote: quote: Kodak once sold a solid aluminized screen for A/V applications known as the "Ektalite" screen. Its size was limited to about 50 x 50 inches since it was a solid material curved in a compound curve to optimize the reflection pattern. John, we had a couple of those screens in the late '70s, but we did not find them wery successful. There were three main problems: 1. They were quite expensive. 2. The viewing angle was too narrow for the locations where they were installed, of course, this was not a problem with the screen itself, but with inappropriate use of it. 3. The surface marked very easily, and was difficult to clean. This was a major problem when used in a school, where they tended to get covered in fingerprints, not to mention chewing gum, fish and chip grease, vomit and just about anything else you can think of, but would probably rather not. We also found that they were unneccessarily bright; we used them with the original 3-button Carousel-S projectors with the 150W A1/216 lamp, plus a few of the newer 2-button ones with the 250W A1/233, and both of these gave an over bright image. This was the era of the halogen lamp, and projectors were much brighter than the old ones had been, so the screen might have been more useful if it had been available ten or twenty years earlier. About the only time we found it really useful was when using the 'epi' part of an ancient Ross eipdiascope, dating from about the '40s, which gave an image so dim you could hardly see it on any other type of screen. The 'dia' part was no longer used, but was made to take the old 3 1/4 inch glass slides, like cinema slide lanterns. The best use I saw for these screens was on exhibition stands, where there were very high ambient light levels.  |  IP: Logged Greg Mueller Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1687 From: Port Gamble, WA Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-14-2003 09:15 AM                        Yah, everytime we drive by that "light bulb"(?) screen, we're amazed, and I agree it is an extreme distraction. I wonder if there are any stats on that part of the freeway concerning "crashes while watching tv"? Even with the sun shinning right on it, it is still visable a mile away. I've been checking on it for a few years now wondering when it will begin to die. So far, so good. What a successful advertising medium!  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 02-14-2003 09:31 AM                     Greg, that sounds like the sort of thing that has been installed, in fairly small sizes, at certain main-line railway stations in London recently. They're so bright that it almost hurts to look at them.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-14-2003 12:41 PM                     Next time I get down that way, I'll see if I can det a digi pic of it along with its specifications.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 02-14-2003 02:07 PM                        Probably similar to Mitsubishi's "Diamond Vision" displays: http://www.planetanalog.com/pressreleases/bizwire/22637 Not very high resolution or good tone/color scale, but they are BRIGHT! Here's some others: http://www.signweb.com/moving/cont/emcrelativityb.htm  |  IP: Logged Greg Mueller Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1687 From: Port Gamble, WA Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-15-2003 09:30 AM                        Hey (while this topic is current) I'm going to set up to run some 3D and in all the manuals I've read, they say you must have a Silver Screen for higher gain. The reason being that the polarizing filters both in the lens (side by side anamorphic) and on the audience's eyes will suck a lot of light. The recommendation is for twice the usual illumination. My questions are Is the silver screen the best way (cost effective) to increase gain? Who makes the the highest gain screen? In my small screening room I'm using a 1kw bulb in a Super Lumex. Is it safe to set the output of the power supply to higher than rated setting to get more light from the bulb? (Does that work?) If so how much more? I'm limited on how much my small power supply will put out so I would have to get both a new bulb AND power supply to get more juice if I went that way. Suggestions?  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 02-15-2003 10:49 AM                     Greg, The reason for using a metallic screen for 3D is that the surface must reflect the light projected on it and RETAIN the polarization not diffuse it. The matte screens will not work with polarized light 3D. The fact that there is a gain in light reflectance by using the 'silver screen' is not the major issue here. You should never run the lamp at over the rated current as it is both dangerous and ruinous to the lamp elements. If you are using 2 strip 3D, then there will be more light on the screen by virtue of the two projectors running simultaneously. If you are running side by side or over/under 3D, then there will be a light reduction due to both the optics and the polarizers. Select the light source needed for properly lighting the screen within the ratings of the lamphouse and bulb. Anaglyph 3D uses the Cyan and Yellow color layers for projection of 3D from a single frame. These are viewed through the Red/Blue glasses. Cyan is the negative of Red and Yellow is the negative of Blue. The Cyan image looks black and white through the Red filter and, similarly the Yellow image looks black through the Blue filter. This system worked fairly well as long as the color layers of the film did not fade too much. (Some patrons with color blindness were unable to view these films in 3D.) Sorry for the long post but I thought your question was worth the response. KEN (Don't get your eyes crossed now!)  |  IP: Logged

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