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Author Topic: I need new lenses Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-14-2003 04:06 PM                     I was talking to the boss about things we need to get for the booth in the next year. We need a rewind bench and some good reels and stuff like that but the number one thing we need are some new lenses. Take a look: They look pretty shabby. The scope lens shows some fringe around the edges of the picture. The flat lens isn't much better. Here's the Flat/1.85 lens: Not too bad until you look THROUGH it! That dirt and the flaw are INSIDE the lens. I've priced out some new lenses and they aren't cheap. Of course! Quality doesn't come cheap My question has three parts: 1) How can I convince him that we DO need new lenses. Most people don't see the problem. If a picture comes out of the projector and you can see it on the screen, they think that's good enough. How do I tell him that the improvement will be worth it? 2) What lenses give the most bang for the buck? Ultra-Star and Schneider are great lenses but they aren't cheap. I priced out a scope/anamorphic lens at over $4,000. (150 mm) If I somehow convinced him to buy all the lenses I wanted, we'd spend over $9,000! Is there a brand that offers comparable quality for less money? ISCO Optic's lenses don't seem to come in focal lengths greater than 95mm. I need a 95 mm, 105 mm, 130 mm and a 150mm anamorphic. 3) I would LIKE to get four lenses: 1.85, 1.33, 1.66 and a Cinemascope. That would cover all the possible films we would play. We do play a fair number of European films at the 1.6 ratio. We only play one or two films in 1.33 per year. What would be the best strategy for buying lenses? Get the Flat 1.86 and 1.66 lenses now and get the others later, since we show less of those formats? What I'd REALLY like to do is borrow a good 95 mm lens (for the flat 1.85 ratio) and sit the boss down in the theater and do an "A/B test" with a piece of RP-40 in the projector! What do you guys think?  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-14-2003 04:15 PM                     I would get the 1.85 first and the 1.66 second as the magnification is greatest on the 1.85:1 Sankors MC serries are pretty decent economicalption  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-14-2003 04:30 PM                     There is Schneider and there is ISCO...the rest suck and I don't care who tells you differently. ISCO does have focal lengths above 95mm. At the moment, ISCO is less expensive (Schneider just raised their prices across the board and ISCO did not). Schneider will tend to have a more contrasty look...the ISCO will have more even light (on the PLUS series). ISCO's Blue Star anamorphic is the best by far and well worth the money. I believe ISCO still has their "gold lens buy back" program in effect. They will buy back any "golden" lens for some nominal price (like $100 or so). If that is still going on then there might be some money savings there since you have a golden Kollmorgan lens. If you want to talk prices, give me a call or email. Steve  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-14-2003 04:36 PM                     Email me Randy. I think I have a couple of 95mm ISCOs sitting around you can borrow.  |  IP: Logged Ian Price Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1714 From: Denver, CO Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-14-2003 05:38 PM                     So borrow a lens from Brad. Place a new 1.85 lens in the turret with the old fucked up 1.85 lens in the other turret. Run RP-40 film and change between the lenses. I think when your manager sees the black and white of the new lens vs. the Grey and Somewhat Greyer of the old lens, he will spring for the new lenses. You may have to write a lens purchase schedule so that the theatre doesn't spend all the money in one month.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-14-2003 09:12 PM                     "There is Schneider and there is ISCO...the rest suck and I don't care who tells you differently." _____________________________________________________________ Appropriately said and well put!! I second this statement for sure. Buying anything else is the equivelent to burning your money in the firelpace..... Mark 2 CLACO  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-14-2003 09:20 PM                        The biggest improvements you are likely to see are improved contrast (i.e., richer blacks, brighter colors) and better sharpness across the screen. Borrow a modern lens of the same focal length and compare. The SMPTE 35-PA test film provides an objective test, but any film with a range of contrasts and bright colors should look much better. I agree with Gordon that the 1.85:1 format is more critical, in that the magnification is greater. But put priority in replacing the lens that has the most internal haze/damage. Here's my article on the subject: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/pytlak/dec99.shtml  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 03-14-2003 09:25 PM                     Randy, what are your lens sizes?  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-14-2003 10:21 PM                     ISCO and Schneider are the first names I think if when it comes to lenses and I really can't think of any others that I know anything about. I looked on ISCO's website. www.iscooptic-usa.com I think I found the lenses I need there. Now that I think about it, we don't need a 1.33/Academy lens so much. We only play a few films in that format. The lens we have now will probably be OK for as much as we use it. We play quite a bit of movies in 1.66/European format. It'd be good to be able to play them without having to crop off the tops of people's heads in order to read all the subtitles. We really do need to get rid of that old, crappy Kollmorgan. It's seen better days. If it's not eligible for a buyback it'd make a pretty neat paperweight for the boss's office, doncha' know! Do you think it would be any good for burning ants on the sidewalk? The Scope... Due to the cost, I think we can limp along for a while longer without it. I'm thinking, "Sun Tsu"... "Pick your battles." If I can get the two flat ratios I want, people will notice the improvement. It will be easier to pry the money out of the boss later on when he's convinced of the improvement it will make. Another question: When you're hung between two lenses, which way should you go? Let's say your desired focal length works out to about 113 mm. You can get a 115 mm. or a 110 mm. I'm thinking get the longer lens. Minimize croppint and maximize light. No? I can move my masking on all 4 sides of the screen to compensate for the image getting smaller byt that extra 2 - 3 inches. Paul: Right now, we have: FLAT/1.85 - 4" (Kollmorgan) SCOPE/2.35 - 6" (Kollmorgan) + Anamorphic. (I forget the brand) ACAD/1.33 - 4.5" (Don't know brand.) Would like to get. (In order of precedence.) FLAT/1.85 - 95 mm. FLAT/1.66 - 110 mm. SCOPE/ 2.35 - 150 mm. + Anamorphic. ACAD/1.33 - 115 mm. To fit a Simplex PR-1003 without turret. 70.6 mm. dia. (?)  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-14-2003 10:43 PM                     Go with the longer lens and adjust the masking Sankor would do the job on the lower magnification ones  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 03-15-2003 10:38 AM                     15 years ago, I swapped out some Kollmorgan lenses for Schneiders and in every case, (in addition to the better focus, resoultion, etc.) there was a 2 fL increase in light. I may have all those lenses sizes, in addition to anamorphic adapters sitting around, if you'd like to test-borrow. I also have those 4" to 2 25/32" bushings so you don't have to remove your old lenses and possibly risk having to touch up apertures.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-15-2003 10:44 AM                     Is Kowa lens still available and who is the importer now at one time it was CFS is there an english web site for KOWA  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-15-2003 10:46 AM                     "Sankor would do the job on the lower magnification ones" ____________________________________________________________ Gord what it this new fetish you've developed for Sankor???? They are considered coke bottles in most circles. Even the newer Sankors are not even decent as compared to the older Iscos and Schneiders!. Nothing like installing someones $750,000.00 booth and then plugging in a Sankor to create an image quality bottleneck...... And Schneiders or Iscos are not even that much more $$...... Mark  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-15-2003 11:02 AM                     No mark but the Sankor MC lens are actually very good for there price.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-15-2003 01:29 PM                     Brad says he will loan me a couple of lenses for testing. I'll do some A/B testing and then get the boss to come in and sit down while I do the tests again. Then, after the tests, how about I get out the old digital camera? I'll repeat the tests and take pictures. If they come out, I can e-mail them to Film-Tech and we'll have some photographic examples of what difference the lens makes.  |  IP: Logged

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