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Author Topic: Why are there very few SRD-EX and SDDS-8 releases now? Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-16-2003 04:51 PM                        I have noticed that there were more pictures released in SDDS-8 and SRD EX at the time, the two enhanced digital sound process was introduced compared to now. The last pictures in EX I believe was the recent Harry Potter film and "THE TWO TOWERS" and cannot recall the most recent SDDS-8 sound film. I understand that "TEARS OF THE SUN" has a very active mix and you would think that Sony would have utilized SDDS-8 for this movie but chose to release it in standard SDDS-6 instead. As far as EX encoding is concerned, I have made a very startling discovery. I have been watching a lot of films that were not relesed in EX in theatres and watched them at home on a DVD and have noticed that many of the films have very active rear sound activity. Is it possible that the sound I am hearing from a DVD was specially mixed for home video with the rear surround spruced up a bit or is it pretty much the same mix as the theater's print? -Claude  |  IP: Logged Don Bruechert Mmmmmmmmm, bird! Posts: 340 From: Manitowoc, WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003 posted 03-16-2003 04:57 PM                        Tears of the Sun does indeed have an excellent SDDS mix... In fact a bit too excellent I have noticed that Matrix Reloaded is shown on the scoreboard to be coming out in SDDS-8, but we'll have to wait and see because things sometimes like to change at the last minute. I know opinions are like buttholes... (everybody has one), but I have taken a liking to listening to movies in the SDDS format over DTS, except of course at home, where I will go out of my way to look for DTS.  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-16-2003 05:39 PM                        Claude, Here In Italy 007 and The Ring are EX encoded. About surrounds, I found it too. I'm not sure yet if all theaters are crap or DVD are enanched... IMHO, I woul choose the first option! Bye A  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-16-2003 05:54 PM                     Claude, I think, you might see a reversing trend on that in a year or so. DTS's new XD-10 processor is capable of 8 channels as its being released, and will be 10 channel capable in a couple of months after its release. Give enough time to get them in the field and you may see a re-surgance in 8 channel sound. Good riddance to Sony! I am puilling out two DFP2000 units this comming week that have been an absolute pain. We'll see if Sony can fix em or not...... Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-16-2003 05:59 PM                     Some movies have a different mix for DVD than what is used in movie theaters. Not too many companies will actually make note of that on the DVD packaging though. The "Blade II" package mentions how no re-equalization is required since the audio is mixed specifically for home theater. I have often suspected different mixes being used for a lot of DVD releases since the sub-bass and surround levels seem raised up higher than the theatrical mix. The problems with SDDS-8 releases is that very few SDDS equipped theaters have 8-channel speaker setups. Most are 5.1. So that creates more incentive for filmmakers to just go with a straight 5.1 mix. The problem with Dolby-EX is that it is very badly marketed in commercial theaters. Perhaps not enough theaters have installed EX systems to warrant many filmmakers using the process. Then you have the added problem that so many film releases have such brief stays in the movie theater. They're out on DVD within just a few months. In some cases it seems like more work is done to pump up the sound for the DVD release than the theatrical one. Lots of new home theater products support Dolby-EX and DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete. I suppose as 6.1 capable home theater systems become more and more common then we may see more drive to get Dolby-EX used on theatrical releases. Maybe with DTS' new 10-channel capable hard-disc player on the horizon more things will happen for various extended surround formats. But for the DTS-10 format to get off the ground, it has to get movie title support --particularly in the form of a big summer release.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-16-2003 06:34 PM                        Mark, How will the DTS XD-10 distribute the initial 8 tracks and the eventual 10? Right now, SDDS-8 has five behind the screen plus the two surrounds and subwoofer. Will the initial 8 tracks will be like Sony's? What I would like to hear is a full discreet system covering the full 360 degree soundfield. What will it take to play films encoded with DTS eight and ten tracks? Will it just be an adapter to use with the current DTS processor or will it require and entire new unit. How many more amplifiers will be required for the ten track playback compared to a standard six track? -Claude  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 03-16-2003 06:41 PM                        The DTS XD-10 is a processor. You'll need it to decode the eight to sixteen tracks that it is going to be capable of. The number of amplifiers is dependent on whether you bi-amp or tri-amp your channels. With 5 stage channels, 3 surround channels all bi-amped and a pair of subs each using a bridged amp, you are looking at a minumum of 10 2-channel amplifiers.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-16-2003 07:54 PM                        Here is another question. Since Sony already has a 8 track digital sound system and DTS shortly due to release a process of their own with their SD-10 I am wondering what Dolby is going to do? . Being ahead in the Digital sound game with the most theatres in the world equipped with SRD and almost every film encoded with the soundtrack, What are Dolby's plan regarding expending their current six track system like Sony's SDDS-8 and DTS ? I was once told that the current SRD track between the sprocket on the left side of a print is capable of holding more than the current six and can accomodate as much as twelve tracks. Although very possible, I find this very hard to believe because of the very small area. I feel by using the space between the sprockets on both sides of a print, the sound quality will be better because of much more room to encode the tracks. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 03-16-2003 07:57 PM                        Dolby has rights to use the area between the sprocket holes on the inboard side of the film (opposite the current track). Any future channel expansion will likely utilize this area. In fact using the exact same system except on the inboard side for all the 'extra' channels would allow 5.1 and 10.2 systems to happily co-exist (or 6.1 and 12.2) without a lot of 'technical effort'. Since extra surround channels would probably be used far less individually, it would be possible to pack more channels in the same area and maintain a decent average bitrate. Now if Dolby wants to 'do some work', which I'm sure they are, they'll be able to pack in more channels at a higher bitrate using both sides of the film since they wouldn't be doubling the possible bitrate, but squaring it. Now if we all converted to 5/70 they'd be able to fit even more channels in.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 03-16-2003 08:20 PM                        At the digital cinema seminar at ShoWest, Dolby announced that they were working on a process to encode 16 channels, up to 14 for audio and 2 for metadata, into a continuous bitstream. The process is a further development of Dolby E. I forgot what it will be called, since the film-tech drink was immediately afterwards and I cancelled a lot of my brain cells there. The discussed project was explicitly for digital cinema. I do not think that the other side of the film will ever be used for an expanded soundtrack. It seems to be too late for that now. There would be too many compatibility issues. However, it seems possible that we will see the 5 front channels again with Dolby and dts sometime in the future.  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 03-16-2003 08:34 PM                     This all sounds like overkill to me. I really don't see producers or theatres adopting more channels than already exist. Special venues, maybe.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-16-2003 09:05 PM                     I would say 5.1 and 6.1 systems are good enough for the home. Tomlinson Holman has made convincing arguments for the implementation of 10.2 surround systems in commercial cinemas. A surround array of only LS and RS channels isn't good enough to convey a 360 degree soundscape in the large space of a commercial theater. It is a fact most listeners in the auditorium simply hear a big left-right effect when it comes to surround. The Dolby-EX approach is just a minor workaround. More audio channels in the surround array would smooth out what Holman calls the "snap" effect on items like fly bys and such when they move from the screen to the surround array. Regarding Dolby's work on a new audio encoding system, I wonder what method they are using. A newly revised version of AC-3 able to handle more channels and surpass the 640kb/s ceiling? Or AAC? The Advanced Audio Codec (which Dolby distributes) has the potential to encode up to 48 channels of audio.  |  IP: Logged Neil McGovern Film Handler Posts: 35 From: Sheffield, UK Registered: May 2002 posted 03-16-2003 09:19 PM                        Number of Amps> You can get away with just one amp for both the subs, but make sure you watch the resistance values of the subs themselves, so you don't short circuit the amps.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-16-2003 10:01 PM                        I can see that the new multi track digital sound systems from Dolby and DTS will be very costly for the average theatre that it will most likely be limited to the larger film venues like the way 70mm film presentations was handled by only large theatres in major cities. All others will continue to show their films with the existing sound systems due to the possible backward compatibility of the new sound process from the two companies. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Karen Hultgren Master Film Handler Posts: 492 From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-17-2003 06:37 PM                        Regarding the XD10, the standard unit can playback in 5.1, 6-track, 8-track, and up to 10-track. In the near future, another 10-channels can be added as an option upgrade. During playback, the XD10 unit looks at the files downloaded onto the harddrive. The file identifies if the audio is a 5.1 mix, 8-track mix, etc. If your cinema processor is capable of only 6-channels (or 5.1) the XD10 will automatically "downmix" the 8-track mix to 5.1. The standard 8-track mix will be laid out as right, right-center, center, left-center, left, left surround, right surround, and sub. There are two channels remaining that can be used for "voice of god" (over head), back surround, or whatever the film maker decides. Any "special mix" discs will be labeled as to channel assignment. All previously released DTS movie discs can be played through the XD10. Karen at DTS khultgren@dtsonline.com  |  IP: Logged

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