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Author Topic: WTF is VITAFILM? Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-23-2003 08:39 PM                  I read with great interest the so-called "claims" pictured below from the website http://stewartmps.com. As a long-time film collector, I have turned down many films that suffered from the "vinegar syndrome" since I was afraid it would contaminate my collection. I have heard all the "advice" about treatments and "sieves" to arrest and/or prevent the degrading of film, but this ad seems to be a flagrant example of misinformation. Is there any proof that this VITAFILM prevents or repairs or stops films that have turned vinegar as claimed? Does anything except proper care and storage prevent deterioration? Also, I thought that VITAFILM was banned because of environmental and health concerns of it's chemical make-up. Is this a new formula or the "original" as claimed? Thanks in advance for all information. >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-23-2003 11:14 PM                     Phil, Its a can of nasty chemials thats guaranteed to get you higher than a kite in no tme flat. Only use it outdoors or with hurricane force ventilation systems. Do you have sinus trouble? This'll help you! It actually does have its uses for cleaning film, but Film Guard works far better and it takes a tanker truck of Film Guard to get you high. Of course John Pytlak will tell you there IS NO CURE for vinegar syndrome, it can only be delayed a bit.....like Kodak wouldn't already have some miracle chemical available called Vita-dak or something to that extent if it were really possible....... Mark  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-24-2003 12:07 AM                  Mark: I am not interested in getting "high".... I haven't had any sinus problems since I left Michigan. I am very familiar with FilmGuard and swear by it. I'm interested in the claims and the chemical compositiom of VitaFilm. Is it "safe" for humans and the enviornment? Does it do what it claims? I'm "waiting" to see what John has to say! >>> phil  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-24-2003 01:15 AM                     You're right.....you wanted to know WTF is was...Sorry, I told you what it does, and I thought you might be interested in the effect that it can have on a person. Next time I'll just let you find that out on your own!! Mark  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-24-2003 01:47 AM                  Mark: >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Dan Lyons Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 698 From: Seal Beach, CA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 03-24-2003 03:27 AM                     Phil, trek over to the 35mm or 16mm collector forums, this has been discussed on there. One known side effect of this stuff is that it can cause the dyes to smear and run on some IB Tech films! yikes! Danny  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 03-24-2003 08:20 AM                     I used the old Vitafilm for 25 years. I had a HUGE collection of 16mm, and lots of old IB prints that were bad for chattering in the gate when projected dry. I always wound the films thru pads soaked in Vitafilm before they played. No problems. AND... No smearing colors on the IB's!! I've always had an exhaust fan running over my editing table. I've never had a problem with the sickly-sweet odor that Vitafilm is known for. I NEVER applied Vitafilm to anything that has tape splices. NEVER! I know for a fact that when Vitafilm gets on a tape splice it causes the adhesive to turn to mush. The splice simply pulls apart. ALL of my Vitafilmed prints were totally cement-spliced. I've not used the product in over 5 years, since I ran out of the last gallon that I had. There is no residual smell from any of the films today. Also, no VS in these. I've heard this IB smear thing several times, and it is not true.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-24-2003 02:56 PM                        There are many proprietary film treatments on the market. Comprehensive testing (e.g., long term effects on dye stability, shrinkage, brittleness, curl, vinegar syndrome, etc.) is very expensive, and is the responsibility of the company supplying the film treatment, not Kodak. Kodak has published information about chemicals that might be suitable for film cleaning. One comprehensive study was the paper "Practical Film Cleaning for Safety and Effectiveness" by Fassett, Kolb and Weigel, published in the September 1958 SMPTE Journal. New solvents that are suitable today are listed on the Kodak website: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/hse/solvent.jhtml Proper storage conditions are the most important factor in preventing or slowing the effects of "vinegar syndrome". Reduced temperature and humidity slow the "hydrolysis" reaction of nitrate or triacetate base, and using vented storage containers (or Molecular Sieves in sealed containers) reduces the build-up of acid vapors that accelerate the reaction and cause dye fading: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/technical/storage1.shtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/hse/mole.jhtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/technical/molecular.shtml  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-24-2003 03:04 PM                     Phil, Just request a safety data sheet on the stuff to see what its about. They have to supply one on request... Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 03-24-2003 03:44 PM                    John, isn't it possible for something to get into the base and actually neutralize the acetic acid in situ rather than simply dealing with the vapors after the fact? Not sure how that would affect long term stability but since the reaction seems to be self catalyzing it would seem logical that killing it at the source would be the best way to prevent further breakdown.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 03-24-2003 03:48 PM                        I've poked around trying to locate the MSDS for Vitafilm, can't seem to find it.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-24-2003 03:49 PM                        I am not aware of any neutralizing chemical that might not have other adverse effects. Venting or Molecular Sieves prevent the buildup of the acids.  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-24-2003 07:45 PM                  Has ***anyone*** here from personal experience had VitaFilm "cure" vinegar syndrome as the product claims? >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 03-25-2003 09:18 PM                     No. All it ever did on my stuff was cover the smell for awhile.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 03-26-2003 09:57 AM                        quote: John, isn't it possible for something to get into the base and actually neutralize the acetic acid in situ rather than simply dealing with the vapors after the fact? It's a long time since I was taught the chemistry of film bases, but I seem to remember that in triacetate, the acetic acid molecules are a key part of the pendant chain ester formation. Neutralise those and you'd also 'neutralise' the flexible, transparent properties of the film base. quote: I NEVER applied Vitafilm to anything that has tape splices. NEVER! I know for a fact that when Vitafilm gets on a tape splice it causes the adhesive to turn to mush. The splice simply pulls apart. Filmguard does exactly the same thing if applied the sort of quantities necessary to lubricate a shrunken print or fill in scratches.  |  IP: Logged

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