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Author Topic: Simplex E7 Not Handling Splices Well and Lubrication Question Hillary Charles Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 748 From: York, PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 04-14-2003 06:19 AM                     Looks like we're finally getting our E7's up and running, and have been testing performance. Last night, we we're running some trailers I spliced together for this purpose. On one splice, there was a gap, so to prevent hinging, I put two pieces of splicing tape on both sides, staggering their position, so as not to be too abrupt. We'll the projector HATED IT and tore the film at that point. I had been aware of this earlier and had relaxed the gate tension (and intermittent pad tension) substantially. Last night, this happened the moment the splice hit the intermittent. Is the splice too rigid? Should I have MORE tension on the intermittent pad? I can't believe that the thickness itself is a problem, because cement splices have gone through okay. Or am I going overboard with the splices, and stick with one piece on each side when risking hinging (not a common occurence, but if a film is slightly shrunken, it happens). The lubrication problem is not what you'd expect when you hear E7. I also noticed last night that the large valve roller was not moving. The other two were whizzing along. When I had cleaned the machine, I replaced the rollers and lubricated them with lubriplate. I know there are various thoughts on that product, but it worked very well. Now, several months later, instead of gunking up, there seems to be no trace of the stuff. To get through the reel, we put some light oil on the appropriate spots, but that didn't last much longer than two trailers. Can anyone suggest a lubricant which will perform with some longevity? Thanks in advance, Hillary  |  IP: Logged Ken Layton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1452 From: Olympia, Wash. USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 04-14-2003 09:03 AM                     NO, no, tell me you didn't use Lubriplate.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-14-2003 09:34 AM                        One test of splice "stiffness" is to curve the spliced film into a small arc, about 1-inch (25 mm) in diameter. The spliced film should form a smooth arc, and not fold up or be rigid. Here's an "oldie but goodie", but the principles still apply: http://www.film-tech.com/manuals/H5001.pdf The Film-Tech Splicing "Tips" are more recent. In an E-7, I guess I'd opt for a splice that tended to fold a bit, as opposed to one that was "stiff as a board". The old magazine valve rollers (usually three rollers) were notorious for getting flats or catching debris and scratching film. Unless you must be certified to run nitrate, replace them: http://www.film-tech.com/manuals/H5003.pdf (see page 9)  |  IP: Logged Bob Koch Expert Film Handler Posts: 183 From: williams ca Registered: Nov 2001 posted 04-14-2003 01:10 PM                     Take a small piece of 35mm film and trim the edges so both side are like a sawtooth and work it behind the valve rollers and drag all the junk out. A six inch piece is about right. As Ken says; "no lubricant, especially Lubriplate. All the above is for naught if the roller has stuck long enough that a flat has been worn on it.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 04-14-2003 01:43 PM                     I think some of your splice separation problems will go away if you replace the sprockets. If they are hooked and badly warn into nubs, they will do nasty things to you and your film. Make sure the pad rollers are in good condition and properly adjusted. A properly adjusted E-7 with good sprockets, pad rollers and gate parts will pass almost anything, but not neary as nice as a Brenkert. The upper pad shoe most of the E-7's used can be a potential trouble spot for ripping splices and scratching film. I gave an old E-7 to Josh some time ago, and he replaced that with a pad roller. What the outcome was, I don't know. I would not do that until positive feedback is posted as to how effective it is. Make sure the film strippers are not bent or twisted, and that they are properly adjusted. As far as lubrication of the fire trap rollers are concerned, don't! If they have flat spots, replace them. They have been a leading cause of film scratching when they are worn out. Clean them as Bob recommended. It is the correct procedure. I am sure Dick P will chime in and if he does, follow what he has to say. He is one of the best there is when it comes to Simplex E-7 advice.  |  IP: Logged Hillary Charles Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 748 From: York, PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 04-14-2003 03:38 PM                     Thanks for the info, guys. Consider me educated regarding Lubriplate. It seemed like the thing to do at the time, as the rollers worked better with it. I swear! When we got the projectors, I took that assembly apart and thoroughly cleaned it. The large roller was flat and I replaced it. Until now, it rolled freely, and I've not run too much since the replacement, so I know it's still in good shape. I'll try that cut film idea and see what I break loose and let you know how it goes. The more I think about it, the more I agree that the splice was too rigid to properly curl around the intermittent. I have checked the sprocket teeth all over, especially on the intermittent and none seem hooked. I'll compare them to sprockets I know to be good, and check for overall wear. Thanks again, Hill  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-14-2003 04:28 PM                     check that there is 2 film thickness clearances between the pads and the sprocket If it is too tight it can snap a splice  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 04-14-2003 05:54 PM                     Hillary, the sprockets the E-7 uses are still available. Use VKF sprockets. The only way to go if you need new sprockets.  |  IP: Logged Hillary Charles Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 748 From: York, PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 04-14-2003 06:24 PM                     Y'all are just a wealth of information! This is a great resource. Update: I used the sawtooth film method and didn't pick up any gunk, just some residue from some <ahem> nameless lubricant. So I took that assembly apart again, and cleaned it bone dry. Back together, I ran my scut trailers and the thing performed like a champ! I wouldn't have believed that the roller would spin MORE freely with no lubricant, but I gladly defer to your combined experience. In comparing the intermittent sprocket teeth to our spare, no difference is immediately visible, but considering the provenance of these machines, I'd rest easier in replacing the sprockets before running too much through them.  |  IP: Logged Dick Prather Master Film Handler Posts: 259 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-14-2003 11:21 PM                     Hillary, All of the above posts are very good ideas. Suggestions to consider: Looks like you solved the fire trap problems. The only thing I ever used was an occasional drop of Simplex oil. The important thing is to make sure the studs that screw into the rollers and the slot or hole they go in to are free of any nicks or burrs. They should roll free for a long time. The older Simplex projectors and the E-7 have tight loops so the film needs to be flexable. Normal glue or two sided tape splices will work just fine on your E-7. I think your splice was an overkill and not needed. As Gordom states make sure you have a two film thickness adjustment for the upper sprocket shoe and other pad rollers. The upper sprocket shoe also has a adjustment to contour the sprocket. Make sure this is done. Make sure sprockets, film trap, and gate are clean. Trap and gate come out nicely to clean. I don't think I would replace your sprockets unless you need them. You can check for undercutting and if so reverse or replace only if needed. Sprockets last a long time and yousr are shot now or will last a little while. I don't know what kind of films you are running but if you are running old sometimes shunken or mag film you may not want to use VKF as they might damage older shrunken film. New C/S sprockets work just fine. We have been using them since 1953. Gate and intermittent shoe pressure should be at minumun unless the film jumps in the gate. The more pressure the more parts will ware out. Couple of oiling suggestions. Put a drop or two of Simplex oil on the shutter gear while rotating BY HAND in addition to the one shot system. Also you should have an oil cap on the rear of the shutter shaft. Rotate this until you see the hole and put two or three drops of Simplex oil and close the cover. Hopefully if isn't plugged yet. If there is anything I can help with let me know. E-7's will put out one of the most stable picture I have ever seen.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 04-15-2003 12:06 AM                     One thing I might comment on: When Dick says, "rotate by hand" he means with the motor handwheel, and not the shutter shaft. Failure to abide by that can result in damage to the shutter gear.  |  IP: Logged Hillary Charles Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 748 From: York, PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 04-15-2003 06:00 AM                     Much gratitude to all! I went over the sprockets again and definitely found no undercutting. We tried running the reel in question again, and the redone splices went through just swell. The film thickness seems to be correct, and with light gate tension, the picture is still rock steady. One of the trailers was printed very well, and the image (especially text) looks as steady as DLP! I tend to be overly cautious and go overboard, but based on our test last night, everything seems to be working fine. Apparently, the problem was a loose nut at the switch I'd like to buy you all a round!  |  IP: Logged Sam Hunter Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 779 From: West Monroe, LA, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 04-15-2003 10:26 AM                     Hillary, First let me say that I am glad your issue is resolved. Second, hows that new look coming along? Third, I don't know? (Adam Sandler humor there)  |  IP: Logged Hillary Charles Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 748 From: York, PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 04-15-2003 03:51 PM                     Sam, I'll be sending an interim picture shortly (for something different), but not quite what you're looking for...yet.  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 04-15-2003 07:09 PM                     Paul... I am very interested in what you had to say about replacing the upper sprocket shoe with rollers. Please let me know how it works! To my knowledge, Wolk is the only place to get that part new...and it is not cheap! The last time I checked, they wanted $120.00 for the damn thing! Wolk still has the oblique shaft gear @ $65.00. The upper sprocket gears and shutter shaft gears were not available.  |  IP: Logged

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