my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » The DTS CSS Discs - Who has it and who will give it ?

Author Topic: The DTS CSS Discs - Who has it and who will give it ? Kamakshipalya Dhananjay Expert Film Handler Posts: 190 From: Bangalore, India Registered: Aug 2002 posted 04-17-2003 01:41 AM                     Thanks to all who made it possible - Ours is the first movie theatre in INDIA and possibly in ASIA to have installed a DTS-CSS system, though on a demonstration basis. And I am sure when the demonstration terminates, I would have acquired this marvellous system. The Real Image, the INDIAN representative for DTS and the DTS offices at London and the US have supported us so much in all of this that they cannot be thanked enough. The CSS Discs that are available in ENGLISH are mostly authored for the disadvantaged audience. So the discs do not come with mere subtitles but with more - audio description and narration. Like I have explained in my previous post, the purpose of DTS CSS at our theatre is to play an ENGLISH film with ENGLISH Subtitles so that a vast majority of our population who find the accents difficult will overcome this difficluty well. And this excellent system also makes it possible to present ENGLISH films with subtitles in INDIAN Languages - previously not a possibility because of absence of infrastructure to do so. While I have to admit that the DTS CSS appears to us all as the greatest invention amongs movie technologies in recent decades, it surprises and disappoints us to note that the producers of films are not creating CSS discs for their films as a standard appendage much like DTS sound discs. Not that every print should go out with a DTS CSS disc, but only that if the producer would have a DTS CSS disc authored and made available at a centralised DTS office, a distributor in any part of the world like say from INDIA would be able to request for it from such location and pay for the disc. If I have understood the current practices well, the producer does not have the CSS disc authored and therefore, in some territories like the UK, it is the local distributor who authors it. Consequently, the disc belongs to him and in the event he is unwilling to let a distributor from INDIA acquire the disc, the distributor from INDIA is then required to have a CSS disc authored for himself. This practice, while increasing costs at every stage only results in duplication of efforts. While it is true that subtitling in a foreign language for an ENGLISH film now becomes extremely simple and easy because of the DTS CSS, such subtitling in a foreign language can benefit greatly if the producer of a film would create a DTS CSS disc for his film with ENGLISH subtitles to start with. Say the movie MATRIX RELOADED. If the producer would have a DTS CSS disc authored with subtitles in ENGLISH before the movie releases anywhere in the world and have these discs stored with the DTS offices say at Los Angeles or London: a) a distributor in UK could obtain this disc and add audio description and narration to it at his expense b) a distributor in INDIA could obtain this disc and make no further changes to it and play the film with this disc c) the distributor in INDIA may besides playing the film with ENGLISH subtitles also start the translation of subtitles into a local Indian language and have a local subtitle disc authored at his cost - a task made extremely simple and easier because of the availability of an ENGLISH subtitle disc. d) a distributor from KOREA may obtain the ENGLISH subtitle disc and have it modified by replacing the ENGLISH subtitles with the KOREAN and such endless opportunities there are. If only a standard CSS disc is available with ENGLISH Subtitles. The input for this suggestion comes from my understanding that : the subtitles are stored on the dts CSS disc not in any propreitray format unlike the .aud files on a dts Audio disc - inferred from the notion that a regular DVD subtitler could author a CSS disc from commercially sold DVD subtitling software. Now I could be wrong in my above assumption and if anyone knows so, please comment. But then, who would give me away the Dts Css disc with ENGLISH subtitles for : HARRY POTTER AND THE CHAMBER OF SECRETS CRADLE2GRAVE GANGS OF NEW YORK HOURS and not ask $$$ or so except nominal charges like the ones applied on a Dts Audio disc. At the end of the day, If I could have my distributor write to a location, ask for the CSS disc and pay a nominal cost for the same, I would take that the producers and the system have noted our needs well. Any comments here ?  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-17-2003 07:26 AM                     Hello, Kamakshipalya. (Is that the right way to address you informally? I'm not sure). I think the problem hear you will find is principally a business problem and a political problem, not a technical one. Hopefully someone will be able to give you some insight (perhaps Karen at DTS). It is not entirely correct to say "the subtitles are stored on the dts CSS disc not in any propreitray format unlike the .aud files on a dts Audio disc." My understanding is that the subtitles (.CAP files) are indeed in a proprietary format, but it is not "very" proprietary. It's trivial to extract the subtitles from the file using standard tools, however it may not be so trivial to go the other direction and create new subtitles. It might certainly be worth experimenting with. It's probably only halfway difficult to modify existing subtitles, rather than adding them at new points in the film. On the other hand, I'm not very familiar with DVD authoring software and it's possible that the DTS-CSS file-format is exactly the same as some standard DVD subtitle authoring format, and I just don't know it. (Hmm...CPC CaptionMaker seems to use .CAP files, but I don't know if they are the same) There also exists SMPTE 341M-2000, "Format for Non-PCM Audio and Data in AES3 -- Captioning Data Type," but I'd be surprised if it were applicable (but maybe someone here has a copy to check). I would also expect DTS to be somewhat concerned about using an open format for their system, since it would make it easy for competitors to sell equivalent captioning hardware. I'm afraid that one answer to this may be keeping tight control on the CSS discs. Best of luck! --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Kamakshipalya Dhananjay Expert Film Handler Posts: 190 From: Bangalore, India Registered: Aug 2002 posted 04-17-2003 10:13 AM                     Yes. Kamakshipalya would be fine. I believe the subtitles are stored in the .NAR format. And there must also be a couple of .SBT files on a disc. And are these DVD discs or CD Roms ? Maestro is a powerful DVD subtitling software that I believe generates subtitles as files in the .NAR and .SBT formats. Am I mistaken here a lot ? Are there no people on this forum who currently use the DTS Css and know a few things about it ?  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-17-2003 12:57 PM                     I should have distinguished more clearly between "subtitles" and "captions," since they are different things. What I was referring to was the caption disc, which has just one .CAP file on it. It's a CDROM, and the information is really small, like 0.5mb. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Karen Hultgren Master Film Handler Posts: 492 From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 04-17-2003 01:53 PM                        Kamakshipalya, I am glad to hear that you are enjoying your DTS-CSS. All discs for that system are CD-ROMs and the decision to make subtitltes or narration for a movie comes from the the film maker. All rights to movies belong to the film maker. We cannot just make subtitles or produce a narration track for a given movie. If the film maker desires, we are always happy to tranfer subtitles for use in the DTS-CSS system. In answer to your question, all material on DTS discs are proprietary. I cannot imagine why any film maker would not want their subtitles played in India or any other country. If needed, you can always contact us and we will do our best to get the subtitle discs you need - if they exist for that film. Karen at DTS khultgren@dtsonline.com [ 04-17-2003, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: Karen Hultgren ]  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 04-17-2003 11:36 PM                     I wrote about the DTS-CSS system awhile ago, although you probably know as much by now. Search for the topic; "DTS CSS closed captioning system install" sometime in October of 2002.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 04-18-2003 12:22 AM                        Installing a DTS DSS system  |  IP: Logged Kamakshipalya Dhananjay Expert Film Handler Posts: 190 From: Bangalore, India Registered: Aug 2002 posted 04-18-2003 02:49 AM                     Well, I wish to clarify here that the DTS CSS system as used at our theatre is not joined with any other system like a closed captioning or a rear window system. As to whether the currect CSS discs are CD-ROMs or DVD Discs, my question arose because the literature for the CSS says that the data is stored on a DVD Disc also called as a SHOW DISC and that for a given film, there may be authored three different types of SHOW DISCS. By definition most DVD Drives also play CD-Roms (Andy McFadden's CD-Recordable FAQ). So I am not able to detect whether the external drive on the CSS unit is a CD-ROM or a DVD-Drive because the drive does not play the usual DVD logo on it. Also, I wish to clarify that nobody has yet refused to offer the CSS Discs. Agree that nobody would do so except on purpose. I put this post so that the location from where to obtain the discs for use in INDIA could be known and expectations built around it. The list of films that already are or have signed up for the CSS authoring is impressive by any standard. I have the list with me and at last count there are 60 films in that list. This makes me wonder if the CSS technology has been the fastest accepted technology in the history of cinema. DTS Audio and Dolby Digital took years to see themselves in INDIA. So, are there any movie historians here who could comment on whether the CSS technolgy is in fact the movie technology accepted in the shortest time ? Internationally ? The national media and the national press here in INDIA have begun to write about the CSS extensively and in my interviews with them, I have expressed that the CSS is the fastest....not just for INDIA but internationally. Have I been accurate there ?  |  IP: Logged Kamakshipalya Dhananjay Expert Film Handler Posts: 190 From: Bangalore, India Registered: Aug 2002 posted 04-19-2003 12:52 AM                     The distance between the subtitle projector and the screen in our theatre is 58.5 feet though the actual distance between the projector and the screen is 104 feet. That there are two types of subtitle projectors, one that throws upto 50 feet and the other upto 120 feet, are there any users in this forum who have installed the projector that handles the 120 feet throw ?  |  IP: Logged Karen Hultgren Master Film Handler Posts: 492 From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 04-21-2003 04:22 PM                        Our dealer in India, REAL IMAGE, will be distribuating these discs in India. I've sent you an email on how to contact them for updates. Karen at DTS khultgren@dtsonline.com  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.