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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
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Author
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Topic: Poor Projection - PCPro Magazine article
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-21-2003 05:08 PM
Come on guys, I'm getting tired of having to ask this over and over. When you link to an online article, provide the link itself giving credit to the name of the website/paper and also copy the text of the article here. Online links are not forever. By not pasting the text being discussed, you are killing the discussion for future archival use on the forum.
quote:
Epilog: Projections Objections
[PC Pro]
Cinemas offer such a shoddy experience, the golden age of film could be over once and for all
Sometimes, it's frighteningly easy to see an industry that's doing its best to self-destruct, and it's hard to have sympathy when it finds itself without customers. I'm referring, of course, to the cinema industry. I like going to watch good films. The thunderous sound and projection of a quality image used to be far beyond what you could get in the home, and that was just part of the whole 'going out for the evening' experience.
But over the last few years, the quality of the experience has been rapidly going downhill for me. In the last two months, I've seen over half-a-dozen blockbuster films at a range of cinemas, from the largest in Leicester Square to smaller multiplexes in Manchester. In each case, the experience has been quite horrible, and each time I've vowed not to go again. And now I'm on the edge of fulfilling that vow and not darkening their doorsteps anymore.
So what's gone wrong? Well, the best place to start is with the sound and visual quality in cinemas. The picture quality achieved is a disgrace. Noisy film stock, with awful edits where the film has broken, plus scratches and blow-outs abound. Even worse, the film almost always judders around in the film gate, causing a shuddering of the image. Just look at the titles to see them bouncing around like a cat having a fit. Also, vertical scratches, where the film has been damaged by the projector, are now the norm rather than the exception.
You might think this is my fault for going to a small-scale flea-pit of a cinema on its ninth week of projecting the same blockbuster. But no. I recently went to the opening night of Terminator 3 at a big cinema complex, yet the picture quality exhibited all the errors mentioned above, and more. My long-awaited Star Wars Episode II presentation had the same mishaps too, and that was a film on its second day of release. Maybe there's some truth in the rumour that the film companies bring over worn-out film stock from US cinemas for their European launches in order to cut costs. It makes sense when a film has been released and already peaked in the US, but it means we keep getting chewed-up, worn-out, hand-me-downs.
Sound quality is far from worthwhile either. Booming systems, proclaiming to be Dolby Digital or THX compliant, cut no ice when it's hard to hear the dialogue and the loud crashes are smothered in distortion.
Some of this can be fixed, of course. DLP (digital light projection) has started to arrive in select locations. It does away with the need for film, projecting a digital image held on a hard disk straight to the projector itself. The image quality can be excellent from this, assuming that the cinema has bothered to focus the projector correctly. But it doesn't help the sound quality, although the removal of nasty film-join bangs and pops is a relief.
Worse still is the audience. Two weeks ago, I went to see a 12-rated film at a large cinema in Leicester Square. Some parent decided it would be a good idea to take along their 18-month-old baby and then sit in the front row. Naturally, the baby couldn't cope with the loud crashes and bangs that were part and parcel of the film, so it spent the whole time wailing, doubtless frightened beyond belief by the noise and flashing lights around it. People went to complain to the management, whose response was to shrug their shoulders and claim it wasn't up to them.
Having spent nearly £15 on two tickets, my experience had been ruined by this poor hapless baby, but even if it had been silent and happy the quality of the projection left everything to be desired.
Babies aren't the only problem. Does everyone who goes to a cinema have to discuss the film with their friends during the quiet bits? Do they have to laugh at inappropriate times? And how do they manage to ignore the fact that their bag of sweets or popcorn makes a noise that can be highly intrusive and annoying to the people around them? My worst experience of this was during a particularly emotionally charged scene where the leading lady was passing away, only to have the person behind me sucking noisily on the empty dregs of their drinks container.
What of the alternatives? Well, I can get a decent DVD player and a domestic-sized DLP projector if I want to go beyond the display proportions offered by a conventional widescreen television. I can get surround sound, which beats any cinema system hands down. And I can buy the DVDs for the same price as two cinema tickets. I accept that I'll have to wait a few months between the overhyped release of the film and its appearance on DVD, but it surely isn't a difficult trade-off when faced with the awful reality of the cinema-going experience.
Frankly, the general public isn't a particularly pleasant beast to be around at the best of times. And it's hard to see how I'll force myself to put up with the at-best mediocre cinema experience any longer when the home-grown digital alternative has so much more to offer.
Jon Honeyball
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-21-2003 05:51 PM
Jon Honeyball is right about many cinemas offering a shoddy-at-best experience. But his technical understanding rates down in the silly/ignorant category. Basically it sounds like he is trying to sell people on just staying at home with their DVD players and hyping that "DLP" buzzword. Everyone who participates in this forum knows DLP does not beat film-done-right.
His complaints about sound format and presentation bring up an issue of taste in how sound is presented. I've seen many different home theater setups. And most are improperly setup. Usually the sub-bass is way overdriven to the point where it sounds like some hip-hop gangsta wannabe's warbling car stereo system. Shit, about all you hear is "thoooommmmm thoooommmm"! If bass lovers are going to complain the movie theater doesn't do that, then the theater operator should take it as a compliment. It's nice for sub-bass to be felt, but it should not be very audible. The standard for all 5.1 systems to stive to meet is clean, even-bodied sound, not stuff that is overly tinny or just overdone with bass.
Home theater does have the capability to surpass the quality of sound delivered in most commercial cinemas, but only if you spend some really serious bucks. You don't do it by buying the itty-bitty $250 home theater in a box deal at Wal-Mart. But many figure if the same logos are on their little pieces of hardware as what crawl up the screen on the movie's end titles, then their setup must be just as good if not better.
Jon would have been more on target if he would be talked about the great presentation quality many movie theaters could deliver, but are not out of just being complacent, cheap and apathetic.
I'm not sure what can be done about disruptive audience members. Basically there has to be a way for everyone else to let those bad apples know we're not okay with their shit. Our silence equals apathy and the bad folks feel enabled by it and then just do what ever they feel like doing.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-21-2003 07:31 PM
No I wouldn't agree, because assuming an all-DLP multiplex will be better than all-35mm depends on the equipment being properly operated and maintained under real world situations.
There is no digital projection system in existence that is easier to set up and operate than a 35mm system. Just about every high-priced video projection setup at any commercial movie theater is at a high end "flagship" class facility that receives a much higher degree of technical attention than the average (and very neglected) neighborhood theater running 35mm. My understanding is the Cinemark location in Plano, TX (just north of Dallas) has its two DLP screens largely operated by technicians from Texas Instruments rather than Cinemark personnel (they at least come in and offload the movie from DVD discs to the file server rather than let one of the booth people do it).
It underscores the fact most digital projection systems are very babied and protected setups, and are certainly not indictative of the performance likely to be seen if run under normal multiplex conditions.
Also, the digital projection installations would be subject to the very same problems in audio as many 35mm installations. Audio quality in terms of the recorded soundtrack might be a tad better if the DLP show is featuring uncompressed 20-bit Linear PCM. But it is not a staggering difference when compared to DTS, Dolby Digital and SDDS. Many audio problems in commercial theaters are happening from bad EQ, blown or worn out speaker drivers, poor quality amps and speakers, etc. An all-DLP setup would have the same problems when operated under the typical method of multiplex management.
The problems in poor quality film presentation is not an issue of analog versus digital. It is an issue of the exhibition industry running things on the cheap. They're not paying their staffers enough to give a damn about show quality, much less make the jobs competitive enough to attract people who love to show movies and put on a good show. Some of this also gets back to the film distribution companies who keep taking more and more away from the movie theater circuits, expecting them to live on ever more narrow margins. Executives are just expecting to throw around that "digital" buzzword and have it be enough.
The movie industry as a whole needs some major retooling since so much of the product out there has a stale "been there seen that" formula to it. With that being said, one of the quiet threats to 35mm projection is underground, video-based movie making where the end product just gets shown in festivals and goes straight to DVD or the Internet. If better stories get told in that venue more people will indeed stay home and watch it on their DLP flat screen TVs.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 09-22-2003 01:29 AM
On the pasting whole articles issue I agree - there are no 'fair use' provisions in UK copyright law as there are in the States, and I am cagey about doing this. I have copied and pasted articles once or twice, usually from websites that require you to register in order to read their online content, but don't like making a habit of it. If Brad makes it a forum policy that all online articles must be pasted where available, I fear that, sadly, he could be asking people (especially those who are posting from outside the US), to break the law.
As for the article itself, I really can't see that there's anything new in there. I'm sure that if he rented a DVD from Blockbusters and found it scratched to hell, he'd start moaning at the video rental industry too.
The one interesting issue in there, I think, is that of the screaming baby. A few months ago I read a national newspaper article about a mother who was pissed off at not being allowed into a cinema with her baby. The reason given by the manager was the film's censor certificate (never mind if the baby is too young to understand any of the film, 12 weeks is under 12 years, so that's that). But I later found out that apparently it's quite common practice for UK cinema managers to keep babies out on these grounds, whereas the actual reason is to avoid complaints from other customers if the baby starts crying. That way, you don't have to get into an argument with the parent(s), who will inevitably claim that their little one is perfectly behaved...
Perhaps the way to go on this one is to schedule a few 'family friendly' screenings, perhaps on weekday afternoons and with lower ticket prices, to which babies in arms are welcome, but to have them absolutely verboten from the main evening shows.
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-22-2003 03:29 AM
I don't see it that way Leo. A few years ago when I was actively trying to contact every website to get permission for any pasted article, the answer I always got was "no problem, so long as the name of our publication and the website link is credited." The only occasional stipulation I would get was "do not edit the article". Basically they did not want "versions" of their copy out there. They wanted all or nothing. After awhile, I gave up on the effort, as no one had a problem with it and sometimes it took forever to officially get the same answer.
So while I may be technically wrong here, this is something that needs to be done to preserve the integrity of the archives. So long as the person making the post gives credit to the publisher and author with a link to the source, I don't see how that is harming anyone and no publications I have asked has had an issue. If someone from a website complains, I will gladly remove it as well as prevent any and all future links to that base URL just to make sure their request is satisfied and it doesn't happen again. That would indeed be a rare exception though, especially in the situation of news articles where online discussions via forum or newsgroup are common.
In the meantime, if anyone has a problem with that general policy, then please refrain from posting the link or discussion about it. There is nothing more annoying than researching something in the archives only to find the discussed link is dead.
And now back to why video is so much better than film...
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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-23-2003 08:43 AM
Bobby, the only time TI comes over is if I need them to check something out or set up a special setting on the projector head. (My heads are early versions and don't have some of the neat autosensing abilities that they have today. One head is prototype 13 still working fine after 4 years)
Back in the day when the QuBit player was the only playback system we used, yes, TI or even THX would come to the location and offload from DVD-ROM to the playback system. Now, I do everything myself, lampchange, lense change, and media load/setup. TDC (Technicolor Digital Cinema) still comes to the location to QC the setup because the studios pay for that service. The TDC techs travel around the country for about 1 week before new releases setting up projectors, media watching the same movie again, and again. I think they hit specific market theatres as they possibly couldn't do all installations.
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Lauren Fisher
Film Handler
Posts: 12
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 09-23-2003 04:09 PM
I couldn't help but laugh while reading this article. So much of what Jon says is true about how the public reacts to certain events that happen while watching a movie. However though i have to disagree with the movie going experience being shoddy. The only times that i ever see a movie is screening it the night before it opens, and occasionally with a friend or two. Even though i'm watching it by myself i love hearing the sound effects soar throughout the entire theatre as Kate Beckinsdale kicks ass. As far as the picture quality, all of my prints that i have built have left the theatre with out excessive scratches, unless they came that way.
More than often a bad movie going experience is due to laziness in the booth. Just because it's an easy job doesnt mean that one can go about not threading projectors correctly and causing prints to scratch. Honestly every time i go in to work, if there's a newly scratched print (notified on our board) i start asking 20 questions and then complain about why it happened in the first place. It takes 20 secs to look around the projector's space to make sure there isnt a way for that print to get scratched. I know that right now we are trying to weed out the Lazy bums we have upstairs.
The audience does play a big part in the acutally theatre. There are times that i'm with my friends and the so called teens are laughing and giggling and throwing stuff and kicking my chair...etc... well there are those times when management cant do it i just turn around and tell them to shut up. However if i am working i go downstairs warn them, and then if they continue in their games of immaturity i kick them out of their movie because patrons pay to see a movie not socialize. As for bringing babies, i wouldnt bring a baby into a theatre. Wouldn't the sound affect their hearing?
As far as Digital goes, we have two DLP projectors in our theatre (Cinemark Legacy in Plano, TX) and they run quite well. In fact if you wanted to see a flawless production of Matchstick Men you could watch it on our DLP projector. Although sometimes the low quality of sound is due to a print that does not have the digital sound enabled on it or a processor has broken. For a week or two we had to run American Wedding in SR because the DTS processor broke. Several times I was asked to turn the volume down during the trailers but to raise it when the movie began because it was too quiet.
I am one of the few who continue to make sure customers are getting their 'perfect' presentations at this theatre. I think that partially one of the reasons why theatres don't receive as much business as they used to is because of the media. Not only does this article prove the point but it enhances it. The press is what everyone eventually sees, and usually tend to believe it. When the press says a particular movie is bad, by their opinion, the general public will think...oh it's bad we shouldn't go see it, and they'll stay away and then theatres will not receive any business. All in all the public needs to understand that it's an opinion not a threat.
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