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Author Topic: How to best present "Spellbound"? Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-27-2003 10:27 PM                     We're showing the movie Spellbound in a couple of weeks. I understand that it's a video blow-up. Isn't it a 1.33 hard matte inside a 1.66 frame or something crazy like that? If so, what's the best way to present it? I can move my masking in to any position. The curtains are tied to the pipe in front of the screen... Just retie in any position. I can also fly the screen in or out just a hair to scrunch the screen vertically. (Only a couple feet or so.) I was thinking that I could move the masking in to Academy and play through the regular flat lens we have. Then I could put some gaffer's tape on the glass in front of the projector to guard against spillover. We had to do this for Gone With the Wind. Any ideas? I've got two weeks to figure it out.  |  IP: Logged Ian Price Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1714 From: Denver, CO Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-27-2003 11:21 PM                     Spellbound is 1.85 pillerboxed to 1.37. you can just use your 1.85:1 lens.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-28-2003 12:35 AM                        In other words, it's about the same rez as a 16mm print....well almost. No matter, it's a STUPID idea -- and they moan about the waste of film geography that cropped 1.85 causes. This not only wastes the top and bottom of the frame, but the sides as well. Whatever happened to the much more elegant idea of using the anamorphic format to present a 1.37 original? It's a much more efficient use of the film frame -- better light and rez. Randy, as far as what you need to do in the booth....if your flat 1.85 lensing and aperture is on the money, you should not need any additional masking on the booth port glass. The top and bottom of the image will meet the top and bottom mask quite perfectly. You should only have to adjust your side masks to meet the sides of the image. You have to tie and untie the entire curtain hang when you want to change screen ratios? Even a pully-less track would be better than that. Make them put in a simple lightweight track in place of the pipe (or strap one to the pipe) ADC makes a very lightweight aluminum model called Specifine that we use; although it is lightweight, it supports a fairly heavy masking velour and a full 42 ft satin curtain. You could then just pull the curtain or mask to any position you need to without all that tying and tying. Frank  |  IP: Logged Christopher Seo Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 530 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-28-2003 02:32 AM                     Frank, I definitely agree that 1.33-in-1.85 is a pretty lousy idea. But I thought GWTW looked pretty lousy as 1.33-in-2.39 also. Of course, the resolution issue doesn't matter with "Spellbound"... it was shot on video anyway. Randy, Beware... IIRC the horizontal matte does shift slightly from reel to reel. So you can never get it perfectly aligned with the side masking (not counting keystoning issues, either)....  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 09-28-2003 10:28 AM                        It's sad that so few theatres are equipped to properly present the classic "Academy" 1.37:1 aspect ratio (projectable image area of 0.825 x 0.602 inches, per SMPTE 195). Lots more light and better image quality than any cropped or pillar-boxed format.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-28-2003 10:43 AM                        Agreed that 1.33-in-1.85 releases are dumb. Theatres that can't play 1.33 films properly just shouldn't book them. Would it really kill the gigaplexes to invest in _one_ Magna-Com lens and cut a few 1.33 plates for different-sized auditoria? Even if they don't add a 1.33 stop to their masking, at least they could show classic films uncropped without having to do stuff like take apart their scope lenses. As for Spellbound, I ran it at 1.85, although the theatre is equipped for all formats. It looked fine at 1.85 and I'd be amazed if the producers intended anything different. Titles are just barely "safe" for 1.85, though, so you might want to try 1.66 if your projection angle is steep and/or if your 1.85 picture tends to crop off the corners a bit.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-28-2003 11:02 AM                     I'd say just set up several old 25" Zenith tube color TV's in the lobby, have it transferrd to cartrivision format and show it that way. After all, doesn't this sort of thing deserve the proper presentation method??? Mark  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-28-2003 11:58 AM                     The problem with installing a traveller is that there's not a lot of room between pipes. They are on (I think) 8" centers. The screen is on lineset #5. The masking is on pipe #4. Then, pipe #3 is "First Electric". #2 is "Main Rag". #1 is "Main Valence and Border". That puts the screen 48" upstage of the plaster line. The biggest problem is that "First Elec." has lights on it, making is slightly wider than the 16" fly space given it. You have to have room to swivel the fixtures yet keep the hot lights away from the curtains, lest they get "toasted". Tying the curtains to the pipe is the lowest profile we can have. This is a big PITA but it's the best solution we have come up with. We might possibly be able to come up with enough $$ to buy a low profile traveller track but we'd probably have to move the screen back one pipe to make fly space for the curtain. Moving the screen upstage brings on another set of problems: Line #6 is the orchestra shell. That's 800 lbs. of wood and steel to move. The screen frame is iron pipe fashioned out of "Kee-Klamps". There's another couple-few hundred pounds of weight to move there. All those pipes would have to be reweighted when the goods are moved upstage. We don't have the manpower. There's just me and the Production Manager. The rest of the labor force is Work Study students. (Not a reliable workforce for "heavy stuff" like that.) Assuming all of that can be done, we have to account for the screen being moved 8" farther away from the projector. The image size would increase. New lenses would have to be purchased. New apretures would have to be cut. We're in a cluster fuck situation as it is. I'm going to have to live with things as they stand for a while. We DO have an Academy lens/aperture set. We are the only place in town (within at least 100 miles) that even has a set. Not even the old Warner Theatre has them. I know. I'm the last guy to run those machines. We will be using Academy later on this year to present Metropolis. I want to see that movie! Our projector is an older model Simplex. PR-1003, to be exact. It has no turret but the "lens shifter" for old style Cinemascope movies is still intact and working. I have it set up so that I can shift off center images back onto the screen. I have my workstudies check the projector every reel. Most of them don't know what a cue dot really means, except that they have to get up from their seats in the back row of the balcony and go check the projector! I'll make sure when they go to check the film path, focus and sound that they also check the lens shift. So, Christopher, thanks for the tip! You guys don't think I need to put some masking on the window? What if the film is scratched outside the image area but inside the black matted area? Won't that put distracting "squigglies" on the curtain? I thought that taping off the windows would prevent some of that. You all KNOW what condition this film is likely to be in!  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 09-28-2003 12:23 PM                        Certainly, for pillar-boxed pictures, if you don't have an appropriate aperture plate, "masking" the opaque area of the image on the port glass can help reduce the risk of unwanted "junk" outside the image area.  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 09-28-2003 12:49 PM                     When the Fox Theatre in Bakersfield plays a classic film in 1.37, they just unscrew the anamorphic portion of their scope lens and mask accordingly.  |  IP: Logged Phillip Seib Film Handler Posts: 7 From: Durham, NC, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 09-28-2003 02:11 PM                     Just for point of reference Randy, I beleive Mark Comi at the Plaza Theatre is able to project properly in academy. Unless he has sold his lens since the last time I worked up there.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-28-2003 02:32 PM                     quote: Would it really kill the gigaplexes to invest in _one_ Magna-Com lens and cut a few 1.33 plates for different-sized auditoria? How oddly topical. I am doing this for one complex in town currently. As it turns out, there is one backup lens for 1.66, one backup lens for 1.37 and a Magnacom that floats between the two that just so happens to fit on every screen except for one. All the projectionist has to do is pull the flat lens from the turret, screw the appropriate backup to the Magnacom, change the aperture (of which there is a specific one cut for each auditorium) and adjust the zoom control on the Magnacom until the picture is sized to the top and bottom of the masking for that particular auditorium. Voila! The only thing that sucks is there is no 1.66 or 1.33 masking, but if you're careful when cutting the plates you can get pretty darned straight and sharp edges.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-28-2003 02:48 PM                     quote: Phillip Seib: I beleive Mark Comi at the Plaza Theatre is able to project properly in academy. Interesting. I didn't think they had Acad. I visited there one time. I casually asked if they did. I got a vague, "I don't think so..." type of answer. I'll chalk it up to the fact that the person I talked to probably didn't know much and the fact that I worked for the "enemy" at the time. (Cinemark) Combine those two factors and you can see where that type of information wouldn't be very forthcoming. It's good to know. I'll keep it in the mental file!  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-29-2003 05:57 AM                        Randy, I feel your pain, buddy. We have the same problem. First Electrics is right behind the screen and the lighting instruments or their gel holders invariably rub against the screen when flying it in or out. We had to attach three "runners" -- 3 inch strips of steel formed into a circle about a foot in diameter -- to the FE pipe. These jutt out just enough to engage the screen frame which then pushs the pipe away as the screen come in or out. I understand that these are standard pipe hardware; you should check them out if they could help in your situation. Originally the main rag was used as the curtain for movies, but it is a on a manual fly and cannot be motorized except for vast sums of money. After having stage hands miss curtain cues more times than they got it (you have no idea how frustrating it is screaming into a head set, "Curtain go.....curtain GO....CURTAIN GO YOU INCOMPETENT SOB!" only to watch the first 3 minutes of a Merry Melodies cartoon play on the closed curtain), I decided to install a light wight curtain and attached it directly to the screen frame via that Specifine track. It attaches with right-angle brackets which add just enough space for it to fit between the first boader (pipe 1) and the screen frame (pipe 2). Yes, it is VERY tight in terms of the pipes and the First Electric, but we got it to work....with no help from the Lighting Department, I might add, who's head electrician's solution was "just stop showing movies," or "move the screen to the back wall" -- about 50 feet from the first row of seats. When I responded to those suggestions, I was pulled aside by the GM who told me, "Up yours" is not a professional response to a collegue's position. Film is always a bastard child in a performing arts hierarchy. You have to fight for every inch of space. Frank  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-29-2003 07:06 AM                        Out of curiousity, why would the first electric go in front of the screen? That seems unnecessary (why would you want to light the front of the screen from above?) and likely to damage the screen, either due to large lighting instruments that hit the surface or due to heat if someone accidentally turns on the power when the screen is lowered. At the Columbus (the only place I've shown films that also has full stage rigging, albeit from the 1920s), the first lineset (after the fire curtain) holds the teaser, the second holds the main curtain (which is used as masking), and the third holds the screen. There's another, lighter, curtain a few feet behind the screen (and stage speaker) which stays closed during films in order to avoid reflections from items stored backstage. The speaker itself is not flown, but is on rollers and can be easily moved offstage as needed. There are also two other screen frames (for 1.33 ratio only) farther back which presumably were used in the silent era when live shows were combined with films in the same program. We've never used them, but I suppose that they might be useful to have for slide lectures or something like that. This theatre doesn't have "electrics" in the modern sense...they just have a half-dozen or so of those striplight/cyc light type things with white/red/blue lights pointing straight down. The lighting capabilities are pretty limited, with just these fixtures, white/red/blue footlights, and white/red/blue border lights, all on a Ward-Leonard resistance board. There are also a few 750w Lekos on the balcony rail controlled by an old (1960s?) 8-channel Century dimmer. Lastly, there's a crappy tungsten-bulb followspot on the balcony, a Brenkert carbon-arc followspot in the original booth that hasn't been used in years (sadly), and a carbon-arc Super Trouper stored backstage that needs a 30 amp circuit which we don't have yet.  |  IP: Logged

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