my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Ramping up projector speed to get more Sessions in... (Page 1)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Author Topic: Ramping up projector speed to get more Sessions in... Stephen Brown Film Handler Posts: 91 From: Newcastle, NSW, Australia Registered: Jan 2000 posted 11-29-2003 05:24 AM                     All, I saw a movie in one of the local theatres tonight and I am 99% sure that they had ramped up the projector speed to make the session run faster. Now I'm not talking a small amount, it seemed almost ludicrous at times to hear the Audio. The movie was Elf, and if you've seen it you will know that the voices are already at a high pitch, but the speed up this theare did was absolutely ludicrous. My questions are... -Is this a widespread practice? -If it is, Whats an acceptable amount? -Do you think its ethical? I mean I felt ripped off having to see the movie this way. With Cinemas already battling the DVD/Video Game battle, is this another blight on the already crappy presentations that we see these days? This may be in the wrong forum, if it is I apologise. I'm just trying to see if this is another nail in the coffin of Film/cinema. Regards Steve Brown  |  IP: Logged Peter Mork Expert Film Handler Posts: 181 From: Newton, MA, USA Registered: Jun 2002 posted 11-29-2003 11:11 AM                     Is it widespread? I doubt it - most equipment installed in theatres today would not give you the option to raise or lower the speed. But they can sometimes go off-speed of their own accord. If you noticed this, I'd mention it. If it was done on purpose, I wouldn't call it ethical. But take a look at this: www.cinemaweb.com/silentfilm/bookshelf/3_ettow3.htm It's an essay from the old silent days, when such practices were considered normal. I especially like the part which discusses cutting footage out of a print to make it fit the program length. Those were the days.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 11-29-2003 03:54 PM                     I would agree with Peter; most equipment wouldn't allow the speed to be changed. The only 'common' exception I can think of is a older 35/70mm projector with the option to increase the frame rate to 30fps. I have never noticed this done on purpose, but if someone did, I'd say it was certainly unethical. I have seen where a few people chopped out a large section of the ending credits to save time. One instance was during "Superman."  |  IP: Logged Mike Olpin Chop Chop! Posts: 1852 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Jan 2002 posted 11-29-2003 04:11 PM                     Good idea, John! Im going to go hack off every other frame of the matrix credits now. j/k I wonder what that would sound like?  |  IP: Logged Jeff Stricker Master Film Handler Posts: 481 From: Calumet, Mi USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 11-30-2003 06:50 AM                     We used to vary the speed of motors in professional tape decks by powering them from a variable frequency audio oscillator. The oscillator fed an audio power amplifier (with appropriate power output to run the capstan motor) and the audio amplifier output fed the motor. Run the oscillator at frequencies >60Hz and the motor runs faster, set the oscillator frequency <60 Hz and the motor runs slower. This could be done with a MP projector, but the amplifier would probably need to be in the 300 W class.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-30-2003 08:23 AM                        quote: Good idea, John! Im going to go hack off every other frame of the matrix credits now. Mike, why stop at the THE MATRIX credits? Talk about a film that needs to have "padding" removed! Those old projectionists really had the right idea....grab that splicer and fit that sucker into your schedule! heh heh. And believe me, they would have no trouble chopping out huge sections of THE MATRIX which are not only irrelevent, but freakin unintelligble. As Mr. Richardson said. I can't remember the time when I have seen a production on the screen that would not be benefited by eliminating footage. Padding operates tremendously to the damage of the show.... How right he was. Come to think of it, there are LOTS of films that could benefit from Mr. Richardson's approach to film projection. You know how when you're sitting in the theatre and the picture goes out of focus or is misframed, the audience yells, "Projectionist....Projectionist!"? (as if there is anyone up there -- better they should yell, "Automation....Automation.") Well many, MANY times I sit and watch a film and want to scream, "Editor....Editor!" for the same reason. Coincidently, I just watched MATRIX RELOADED with some friends and throughout the film wondered if they actually forgot to hire an editor, to say nothing of a script writer who wasn't on crack. Some of those kung-fo type fight sequences seemed to go on and on for half the film. As much as today the studios execs would have brain hemorages if theatres edited their films, still you have to admire the old dudes' dedication to making the show look the best. The guy is talking about hours and hours of prep to clean the film, do their editing thing so they don't have to speed it up. Real showmanship, albeit a little twisted when it comes to hacking up the feature.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-30-2003 10:21 AM                     Boy are some of you naive. Even back in the 70s and 80s, I knew of a theatre just outside of Baltimore that, with ordinary Century projectors, used slightly larger motor pullies to speed up the shows. Nobody EVER called them on it. As to modern projectors...Any that use a motor controller has the "flexibliity" to alter the proper projected speed. Even with the good old Simplex and Century projectors one can alter the pullies (motor pulley is the easiest) to increase the speed, if they were so inclined...however...on a Simplex a simple change from the 18-tooth pulley to a 19-tooth would result in a 5.5% increase or just over 25fps. Now, of course, with a changeover theatre...the projectionist/manager can just "play editor" on the last show to leave early...while I've never done it...I do know of others that have. Every industry has its low-life. Steve  |  IP: Logged Charles Everett Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: New Jersey Registered: May 2001 posted 11-30-2003 12:34 PM                     The General Cinema Blue Star in Watchung NJ was a 4-plex that speeded everything up. I walked out of Set It Off when I realized 10 minutes in that it was speeded up. (Hint: First scene after the opening title, a party's going on, "Flash Light" by Parliament is on the soundtrack.) Thankfully this theater was closed in 1998, torn down and replaced by a Kohl's apparel store. Shed no tears.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 12-01-2003 02:51 AM                        At one arthouse/rep venue I worked at which shall remain nameless, we showed Seven Samurai one night. The shows always began at 7.30pm, and the evening usually concluded with a pint in the pub before we all got our respective trains home. All pubs and bars in England stop serving alcohol at 11pm (it's the law). Seven Samurai runs 195 minutes, so it doesn't take a genius to work out that we'd be cutting it a bit fine that night. I was resigned to abstention for that evening and laced up reels 1 and 2 ready to go. Then my boss came in and asked if I'd turned the speed up. 'There shouldn't be any need to', I replied, '...we haven't been showing any silents recently.' 'I don't mean that', replied the boss. 'This fookin' Japanese pile of poncy chickenshit's going to keep us here past closing time if we don't do something about it.' He then proceeded to turn the inverters on both machines up to 30fps! I protested a little bit, pointing out that this was one of London's leading arthouse venues (allegedly), that a lot of the customers were very knowledgable film buffs and that we'd surely get complaints. The boss replied that he'd been showing Seven Samurai at 30fps for years and no-one had noticed! 'The Japanese talk in high-pitched voices and run around all the time anyway,' he explained. 'No-one will know the difference.' He was right - they didn't! We had one complaint only, which was that the subtitles did not stay on the screen long enough for the customer to read them!  |  IP: Logged David Favel Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 764 From: Ashburton, New Zealand Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-01-2003 02:25 PM                     A cinema I visited last year had a Kineton I think with a fps control on the side. They ran allways at the upper limit. Any faster & the dialogue wasn't in sync. One extra session per day.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-01-2003 02:59 PM                        David Favel wrote: quote: Any faster & the dialogue wasn't in sync. How would frame rate affect sync?  |  IP: Logged John McConnel Expert Film Handler Posts: 118 From: Okmulgee, OK USA Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-01-2003 07:36 PM                        One of my small-town theatres had a back-up generator which was run once a month. One night after drinking a little too much beer, I raised the generator's frequency from 60 hz. to 62.5 hz. to see how much it would affect the running time. It shortened it about 5 minutes. The air conditioning seemed to work better, too. Think how much a large circuit could reduce its payroll and utilities if it did this! Distributors might need to send frame-rate checkers with their customer checkers to see that projection speed is in order. The venerable Fox in Detroit installed a variable-frequency drive (VFD) to enable them to vary the frame rate. Their intent wasn't to reduce the payroll or utilities, however, but to easily accommodate the proper frame rate (16 - 24 -30) of whatever they were showing, most of which are classics. The VFD also provided a gentle start-up.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 12-01-2003 09:22 PM                        quote: How would frame rate affect sync? Very slowly. If you were to thread your sound head 20 frames ahead, having sound 1/24 second (~50ft) before the picture, you'd only have 1/48 second (~25ft) by the time you hit 48fps. Of course you'd never notice a change in sync since you'd be, rightly so, complaining about the picture speed and high pitch.  |  IP: Logged John McConnel Expert Film Handler Posts: 118 From: Okmulgee, OK USA Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-01-2003 11:13 PM                        quote: ----------------------------------------------------------------- How would frame rate affect sync? ----------------------------------------------------------------- I'm afraid I can't see how frame rate could affect sync at all.  |  IP: Logged Ken Lackner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1907 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 12-01-2003 11:23 PM                     How would speeding up the frame rate affect digital sound? Would it become higher pitched the way optical would, or would the digital drop out if it wasn't being read at the proper speed?  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.