my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Issue with Smart Mod V (Page 1)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Author Topic: Issue with Smart Mod V Rich Ferrando Film Handler Posts: 64 From: Royal Oak, MI Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-08-2003 01:21 AM                       Hi, kids- I'm new to the forum (and still somewhat green as far as the booth is concerned, but I like to think I'm learning fairly quickly) and I have a bit of a technical issue with our sound processor that I'd like to try to resolve. The booth in our main house is equipped with the following lovelies: USL's BACP DSTR-20 Dolby penthouse reader Component Engineering FM-37 cue detector Component Engineering basement reader for Century Component Engineering TA-10 Automation (I believe - will double-check that) Dolby DA-20 processor Smart Mod V processor The digital sound was installed about 6 months ago. However, since the installation, we've been getting an issue with the processor automation: At the end of a film, everything goes the way it should - the end cue brings the house lights up to full, closes the douser, and switches the Smart processor to "Music." However, as soon as the start of the tail runs through the projector, the Smart processor switches to "Stereo," and thus all that lovely audio garbage at the end of the reel is heard, loudly, in the house. It remains on Stereo after the motor shuts off as well. This issue only occurs with the processor in Digital mode - in SR mode, everything works beautifully. Also of note - the Smart processor starts up in Stereo mode, not in Music mode (the manual states that the processor should default to Music on startup.) Any ideas on what might be wrong, and how to fix it?  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-08-2003 02:54 AM                     I have to admit I've never checked out a MOD V or the BACP reader but, still, it is possible that your SRD reader is re-engaging the processor which then defaults to analog when it loses data. If that is indeed the case then you might try moving your "kill" cue closer to the tail. (I usually kill the show in the middle of the blue MPAA band.) If that doesn't work for you then you have two options: (1) Remove those tails and use a drag-strip in place of it; or (2) Configure your system so that it functions properly. What's a drag-strip? It's stock film -- blank & silent -- perfect for attaching to the tail of your shows so that you don't drag the actual film on the floor after tail-out.  |  IP: Logged Oscar Neundorfer Master Film Handler Posts: 275 From: Senoia, GA Registered: May 2000 posted 12-08-2003 06:49 AM                        Hi Rick, Welcome to the forum! The MOD V should start up in music unless something else is telling it to go to stereo. If anything external (like an automation) is grounding one of the format lines, then the music default will be overriden. Another possibility is that for some reason, this MOD V has been modified to start in a stereo format instead of music. Check by removing all automation connections and DA-20 connections from the MOD V. Now power up the MOD V and see if it comes up in music format. If it comes up properly in music with these connections removed, then something external is overriding the default start-up format. If it still comes up in a stereo format with these connections removed, then something is wrong with the MOD V (or it has been modified to do so). You can call SMART at 1-800-457-6278 and ask for service. We will be happy to figure out what is wrong and send you replacement parts. As to the other problem of reverting to stereo after it has switched to music, my guess is that something external is causing that. Either the automation or the DA-20 is (for some reason) grounding the stereo format line after it has previously switched to music. Make sure the automation is programmed correctly and that no extraneous cues are on the film or that the cues are in the wrong places. (see Manny's post)  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jr Expert Film Handler Posts: 211 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Jul 2000 posted 12-08-2003 10:11 AM                     The DA-20 is smart enough to know it shouldn't switch to analog after the processor has gone to non-sync. But if it doesn't know the processor has gone to non-sync, it will switch to stereo and you'll hear the tail run through. I'd bet the auto interface between the Smart and the DA-20 needs to be checked. Chances are the non-sync command isn't making it to the DA-20. What position is the CP selector switch on the DA-20 in?  |  IP: Logged Marc Jones Film Handler Posts: 82 From: Elizabethtown, KY Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-08-2003 12:12 PM                     just curious could the position of the cue tape cause this , if it causes the dolby DA 20 tho fail and revert back to stereo. If this was the case couldn't you remove the cue tape and manually select nonsync when needed and see it still happens.  |  IP: Logged Rich Ferrando Film Handler Posts: 64 From: Royal Oak, MI Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-09-2003 10:40 AM                       Thanks a lot, guys! I really appreciate it! I'll take a look-see tomorrow and keep you posted.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 12-09-2003 08:56 PM                        How does the Auto Digital feature influence the automation with a MOD V? What processor type do you configure the DA-20 for with the MOD V?  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-09-2003 09:14 PM                     I set the DA20 for a CP65  |  IP: Logged Rich Ferrando Film Handler Posts: 64 From: Royal Oak, MI Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-10-2003 05:30 PM                       Okay, here we go - I did a quick check of the MOD V and DA-20 today. First thing I noticed was that the DA-20 was set for a CP55. So, I first tried adjusting to the CP65 setting as Gordon suggested, after which the MOD V to switch to SR, and the DA-20 no longer aknowledged a digital signal. Thus, I switched it back to the CP55 setting so that the DA-20 would pump digital again. I checked the connections on the rear panels of both components. Under the Automation for the MOD V, the only connections are to the Ground, SR, and Music. The DA-20 and the MOD V are connected via a DB25 cable, which is "split." Essentially, the single DB25 Digital Input connection on the MOD V has two cables running from it - the first goes to the Audio Output DB25 connection on the DA-20, the second to the CP Sense DB25 Input on the DA-20. When the first show ended I was going to attempt to unhook the DA-20 and Automation connections to see if the MOD V would start-up in Music mode, but around that time a pressing issue occurred (lamphouse randomly shut down during a film) that kept me occupied the rest of the day. I'll test that out tomorrow. Anywho, does this configuration sound kosher, or is this just completely wonky?  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-10-2003 07:19 PM                     very odd I always used the cp65 setting when all the cables were removed did the mod v boot up correctly to music If so it is possible that the film runout on the TA10 is wired to hold the modv in sva by mistake  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jr Expert Film Handler Posts: 211 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Jul 2000 posted 12-10-2003 08:22 PM                     I believe it is as I suspected. The non-sync trigger is not making it to the DA-20. Looking at the pinout for the DB-25 on the Mod-5 provides auto trigger pins for ground, digital, and SR(or A), but NOT for non-sync. With the DA-20 in CP 55 mode, the sense/control connector triggers pin 8 for digital, pin 2 for SR, and looks at pin 7 for non-sync. You should be able to simply connect a wire from the music terminal on the Mod-5 auto interface to pin 7 on the Sense/control D-sub. THere may be extra conductors in the existing cable. Probably something you may want to get the tech back to fix, unless you have the necessary experience (and will get paid for it )  |  IP: Logged Rich Ferrando Film Handler Posts: 64 From: Royal Oak, MI Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-11-2003 12:03 AM                       The head engineer for the company will be out in a few weeks to install digital into our other two houses, so before I go ripping things apart, I'll consult with him first, because I simply don't have the necessary know-how yet. 'Tis better to be safe than stupid in this case. Thanks for the help!  |  IP: Logged Oscar Neundorfer Master Film Handler Posts: 275 From: Senoia, GA Registered: May 2000 posted 12-11-2003 07:53 AM                        Rick Long is correct in his assessment of the connections between the MOD V (DIGITAL INPUT DB25 Connector) and the DA20 Control connector. Only digital and SR pins are provided, but NOT non-sync. If the interface cable is one supplied by SMART, then the processor selection switch on the DA20 must be set to the CP55 position. It is easy enough to provide an extra wire between the MOD V AUTOMATION connector MUSIC terminal and pin 7 of the DA20 CONTROL DB25 connector. This may be all it takes to solve the problem. However, the lack of this non-sync connection to the DA20 has not proven to be a problem over the years. Or if it has, then it has NOT been reported to me. (I used to think that no news is good news. I have changed my opinion on this to think that no news is really trouble brewing!) Please correct me if I am wrong (since I have no real booth experience), but it seems that the DA20 should have already reverted to SR by the time the automation has sensed the end of show cue. At that point the automation should switch the MOD V to MUSIC format. Since the DA20 has already reverted, then there should be no problem of going back to SR format on the MOD V. It would seem that moving the end of show cue a bit would allow the DA20 to revert before the automation switches to music format. The correct timing and sequence of events is essential. To digress a bit, this scenario was always a problem with DTS because it would take 3 to 4 seconds after the DTS lost timecode to revert back to SR. So the reversion would occur AFTER the automation had switched the processor back to non-sync, and then the processor would be switched back to SR. I always thought that the DTS should KNOW the last timecode reading on any given print and should NEVER revert to SR after the last timecode had been read. I guess this was just too simple a solution.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 12-11-2003 11:52 AM                        If correctly configured, DTS pulses the main processor to non-sync by itself. Sometimes there were problems, for instance with the CP500, because most installations use SK7 for non-sync while the automation interface board for DTS typically was jumpered to SK8. So the automation would switch the CP500 to SK7, then DTS would switch it to SK8. But that problem could easily be solved by moving the jumper on the interface board to the SK7 position.  |  IP: Logged Oscar Neundorfer Master Film Handler Posts: 275 From: Senoia, GA Registered: May 2000 posted 12-11-2003 12:06 PM                        Michael, If I am correct,the original DTS-6 would only select digital or optical stereo. There was, as far as I know, no provision to select non-sync (except MAYBE when used with a CP-200, but I am not sure). The DTS-6D could select any format, but my understanding was that this would happen ONLY if the discs had the necessary information about which format to select. I may not have this right at all, so please correct me if I am wrong.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.