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Author Topic: Scope going off bottom of screen Richard Greco Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1180 From: Plant City, FL Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-08-2003 07:33 AM                     Whenever I run a film in one of the DTS houses that is in scope, It always seems to run off the bottom of the screen, It is in frame, but it seems like the screen isn't tall enough. Great example is Haunted Mansion. It runs off the bottom. Any Ideas? Also, as a side note, I can't understand why my theatre decided to book Brother Bear and Gothika in the same house. They even booked them in a house meant only for flat films, not scope. So, when I run scope in there it ends up on the wall. Do theatres typically do this? I'm not complaining about it, just curious is all.  |  IP: Logged Darren Briggs Master Film Handler Posts: 371 From: York, UK Registered: Dec 2001 posted 12-08-2003 07:41 AM                        Sound like your cinema was designed and installed badly. The lens sizes don't match your screen and a badly cut apperture plate will cause the image to spill off the sides of the screen. The wrong focal length lens will cause the image to be too big for your screen, a combination of the two is not acceptable really. Get some new appertures plates cut if new lenses is not an option. Darren  |  IP: Logged Richard Greco Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1180 From: Plant City, FL Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-08-2003 07:52 AM                     I also did notice that one of my plates that I was using for Elf had 2.00 printed on it. The other plate doesn't have a number with it.  |  IP: Logged Jason Black Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1723 From: Myrtle Beach, SC, USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 12-08-2003 08:43 AM                        Richard, SOunds like you could have plates that are cut wrong, or that have been inadvertently swapped between houses. Throw coudl be off on the lens as well. The masking could be set incorrectly... there are a number of things that *could* be wrong. First and foremost, if you have a house with no movable masking, your manager shoudl have known better than to put a Scope film in that house. There are no excuses that would cover her reasoning in doing so, as this is a fine example of "Film Done Wrong" . My suggestion to you is that you ask who your PM (Preventative Maintainance) tech is and ask to be able to spend some time with him on his next routine visit. The PM tech normally will spend up to a couple days at a given location, depending on screen count, doing realignments, repairs, adjustments, etc... Taking the time to walk around with them and helping them will bring you invaluable knowledge that will not only help you perform your daily tasks better, but will also help you have a better understanding of what is *really* going on in the booth. I don't think you manager shoudl have any objection to this, as someone from the theatre is required to meet with the PM tech anyway. It may as well be someone who gives a damn about what's happening in the booth, right? Good luck.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 12-08-2003 08:47 AM                     That plate with "2.00" on it suggests that you are projecting a 2:1 ratio for all formats. Do you have adjustable masking? You really need a length of the 35PA test film. Projecting it would help find the exact problem. It costs about $4-5 a foot, but you only need about 8ft.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-08-2003 08:53 AM                        If your dealer doesn't sell short lengths of SMPTE 35-PA (RP40) for making loops, you can buy 50 feet directly from the SMPTE for $180: http://www.smpte.org/smpte_store/test_materials/ Loops are fine for checking image size, but do NOT use a loop for critical evaluation of resolution, focus uniformity, or steadiness. Here's my article "Caring About Composition": http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/pytlak/spring2001.shtml  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 12-08-2003 09:01 AM                    Wait a minute here. Lets not start talking about plates until we know a little more about what type of equipment he is using. Some questions need to be asked, Some may have been asked. First off what type of equipment are you using. Are you using lens turrets that just need adjusting. Do you use an auto apeture changer or do you have to remove the plates when you change from each lens? Does your theater use top masking or side masking. Provide us with a little more information. How many ausitoriums do you have. Can the two films in question be moved to a different auditorium? Was this 2.0 plate in the wrong projector?  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-08-2003 09:10 AM                        I'd ignore any numbers stamped into the plate. lots of places have Academy and 1.66 plates that are stamped "1.85" or some such. Almost all plates are "undercut" from the factory and filed out to whatever size is needed. Agreed that we need more information. Do you have the correct plate and lens in the correct projector? Is the plate backwards/upside down? Has anything happened lately that might have caused the masking system to malfunction? Do you need to adjust the projector tilt when changing formats (easy with Simplex or Century pedestals, but almost never done with consoles)? What kind of projector? Turret or single-lens?  |  IP: Logged Richard Greco Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1180 From: Plant City, FL Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-08-2003 10:06 AM                     My apologies for the lack of information. I am using Century SA Projectors, Strong Lumex and Super Lumex lamphouses. I have 8 auditoriums. I checked the plates and the 2.00 plate is the standard plate at all projectors for Flat shows. The Scope plate doesn't have a number on it. I have to change the plate when I change the lens. I'm not sure what you mean with turett or single lens. I use manual side masking in all auditoriums. The only automation is with the light system. I haven't been told to adjust the tilt for different shows. So I don't. Is that enough information? If you need any more, I can find out. I honestly don't know when my tech comes around next time.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-08-2003 10:19 AM                        You really need to look at the actual projected image area for each format, as measured with the SMPTE 35-PA (RP40) test film. Hopefully, you are showing close to the SMPTE 195 standard 0.825 x 0.446 inch ("flat" 1.85:1) and 0.825 x 0.690 inch ("scope" 2.39:1) image areas. If not, it should be corrected by proper choice of aperture image area, lens focal length, and screen masking.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-08-2003 10:33 AM                     I recently solved a problem where the aperture plates were a little suspect at first but turned out to be okay in the end. The trouble was with the alignment of the lenses and the aiming of the projector. That location was using a lens turret and automated aperture plate. By running a loop of RP-40 test film and switching between flat and scope lenses, I could plainly see that the images were not centered relative to one another. In this case, the scope image was too low. The wonderful Align-O-Tron and a pinhole aperture plate helped get those lenses centred relative to the gate. Suddenly -- with the lenses properly aligned to the gate area -- BOTH my flat and scope images were hanging below the screen. We had to re-aim the projector. We used the scope image (with no aperture plate) as our guide. Once the scope image was properly presented on-screen, I went up to the screen and gently taped a piece of electrical tape to mark the centre of the diamond pattern. Switched over to flat and noted the slight difference -- not nearly as drastic as before. Rather than fiddle about with the alignment of the flat lens -- which is handicapped due to reduced light output -- I decided to re-aim the projector to get the flat image to centre on the little piece of electrical tape. Back to the scope lens -- tweak the alignment of the lens for matched centres on-screen. Reinserted the suspect aperture plate and -- guess what? -- perfect fit! ...and then I removed the electrical tape from the screen (there was that one time that I forgot to remove it and I haven't forgotten again since then.)  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 12-08-2003 07:32 PM                        Manny There's somenthing I do not understand. You use align'o'tron to align the lens holder with the center of the aperture plate and you verify that, after the correction, the image was projected below the screen. Then you aligned the projectow using scope image without aperture plate. What about the frame knob? Does that projector has a "zero" point? I dont know if I was clear... Bye A  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-08-2003 08:10 PM                     Try taking the aperture plate out of the projector while it's running and see what happens. (Wait till there aren't any customers in the theater! ) What will happen is that the picture will appear to go all over the wall, spilling onto the masking and maybe even onto the floor and ceiling. You should then be able to judge where the center of the image is. Once you have found that, try to tell if it's centered on the screen. If the image without aperture is centered on the screen then it's almost a sure bet that somebody has mixed up the aperture plates you. (Sort them out and put NUMBERS on them to match the house numbers they belong in. ) If the image is NOT centered then you could have some kind of alignment problem. It could be that the lens is off kilter. It could be the projector has been aimed wrong. If it's the lens, you'll probably have to call your tech. There are several funky things that could be wrong. If it's simply the projector being aimed wrong, that COULD be easy to fix! If it's vertically off center, there may be an adjustment wheel on the projector base somewhere. Dial that baby in till it's back on the screen. 15 seconds and you're back in business! Virtually ALL projectors have a height adjustment. Some are easier than others. That's all. If it's horizontally off center, it's time to "Play Croquet"! Get a piece of 2 X 4, about 1 foot long. Lay it flat on the ground, right up against the projector base... A STRONG part of the base! Use a sledge hammer and "bump" the 2 X 4 as if you're playing a game of croquet. You should only have to swing the hammer in strokes of 6 inches to one foot distance. After 3 or 4 bumps check the picture. Keep bumping the projector until it's back in alignment with the screen. One last thing... If you're getting anywhere near a projector with any kind of tool, let alone a sledge hammer, you should get your boss to come help you! That way you don't get accused of messing up the equipment.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 12-08-2003 09:14 PM                    Sledge hammer? Why not a pry bar or very big screw driver?  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-08-2003 09:31 PM                     Well, then, let me rephrase. Use some sort of tool to apply lateral force to the projector base and cause it to move in small increments until the picture is centered. I've done it many ways, including simply kicking it with my foot. I guess it depends on how big and heavy the thing is or whether the base is sturdy enough. Come to think of it, a crow bar is good.  |  IP: Logged

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