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Author Topic: Poor Theatre Designs Causes Unhappy Patrons Mark Lensenmayer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1605 From: Upper Arlington, OH Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-17-2003 11:47 PM                     My neck hurts, and I'm still a little queasy, and I blame it on some very poor theatre design. I saw RETURN OF THE KING tonight. Terrific film, too many endings but most impressive. But, this is not a review of the film. It is a review of the worst theatre design I have ever seen. It's partly my fault. Normally, I'm very early to screenings as I am very picky about where I sit. But, tonight, I was with some friends, we spent too much time at dinner and we arrived later than I would have liked. We were still about 25 minutes before the start time, but the crowd was early. So, the only seats left for us were in the front row. The theatre is the ARENA GRAND room #4 in Columbus OH. This is an independent theatre run by a very good quality local exhibitor. Normally a good place to see a film, but not with a sold-out house. The problem is that this theatre is wide with a very short throw. Screen width is about 50'. The distance from the booth to the screen looks to be slightly less than that. (Too dark to count tiles.)The screen fills the front wall, and is approximately 6' from the floor. The front row is approximately 12' from the screen, so I'm looking up at over a 45 degree angle. So, neck pain throughout the picture. AND, to make it worse, the picture was not very sharp. All of the action in the film made my stomach queasy more than once, and caused one of my friends to find a single seat toward the rear of the theatre. As bad as these seats were, I'm glad I wasn't forced into one of the end seats, as being that close to the screen and 50' from the other side of the screen would be even MORE uncomfortable. If there are any theatre designers out there, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't make your patrons suffer just to get a few extra bucks when those big movies come out. Oh, just to make my evening more enjoyable, there were 2 short projector breakdowns during the screening. Happened about 1/2-way through, and it sure gave my neck a chance to rest. Seats that close and at that much of an angle should never have been installed. But, I'm sure the designers were asked to cram as many seats into this room as possible to up the gross on these popular movies. I would like to find the designer of this room and have them sit in the front row for over 3 hours. In fact, they should sit through all 3 parts of the trilogy just to be sure they understand how uncomfortable this is. Going to the movies should be fun, not a literal pain in the neck. [ 12-18-2003, 06:16 AM: Message edited by: Mark Lensenmayer ]  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-18-2003 08:02 AM                     Those rows are put in for booking reasons with the full knowledge that normally they won't be filled. I've maintained that if theatre designers follow the guidelines set out in SMPTE's EG-18...the problems you encountered would not have occured. Steve  |  IP: Logged Evans A Criswell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1579 From: Huntsville, AL, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 12-18-2003 09:44 AM                        Fairlane/Litchfield Theatres was one company, in the late 1970s and early 1980s at least, to put their front row of seats far enough back from the screen. When I go to the Carmike 8 (an old Fairlane/Litchfield theatre) and am in one of the original auditoriums, if the movie is in flat format, I often sit in the front row so no heads will be sticking up in my view. The first row in those auditoriums is equivalent to the fourth row in most other theatres in the area. Checking my notes, I see that the middle of the front row in the old Litchfield auditoriums puts you 22 feet from the screen. For a flat movie with 26 to 27 foot screen width, that's OK. It's a bit close for scope movies with a screen width of 34 to 36 feet in tose auditoriums, though. In all other theatres, I couldn't imagine sitting in the front row. In all of the old Cobb theatres in my area that Regal has retrofitted by adding stadium seating, the entire non-stadium front section is very low and close to the screen. The back row of that section is really the only usable section, although people do sit down there often (usually kids and teens).  |  IP: Logged Richard Greco Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1180 From: Plant City, FL Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-18-2003 09:57 AM                     I feel sorry for the people in my sold out shows for LOTR, The ones that have to sit up front are about 15 feet from the screen. I couldn't imagine sitting that close to a scope film.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-18-2003 11:51 AM                     In our smallest houses (ex-GCC) the front row is about SEVEN feet from the screen. In fact, as high as the screen is off the ground in these auditoriums, the first three rows are unusable. I also don't understand the side rows in the large theaters. The side rows should end four rows prior to the end of the center rows. If you end up in the front row against the wall, you'll be staring at the masking the whole time and leaning over to see a flat movie!! According to the building log, the largest theater held 420, then 403, then 398, and is currently at 394. There's indication (via holes in the floor) that there were seats right in front of the entry doors (so you get a flood of hallway light on you whenever someone enters or leavs) and seats as close as THREE FEET from the screen!! I bet they realized after a few shows that it was rediculous. =TMP=  |  IP: Logged Dean Craig Film Handler Posts: 7 From: Olds, AB, Canada Registered: Dec 2003 posted 12-18-2003 12:58 PM                    Does any body have a good design of a twin theatre that would fit on a lot about 200x100 feet, or know of good web sites with designs?  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-18-2003 12:58 PM                        Standard SMPTE 196M specifies a preferred viewing distance of 3 picture heights, +/- 1 picture height from the screen for review rooms. In other words, for a 20 x 48 foot "scope" image, the best seats would be between 40 and 80 feet from the screen. A good 35mm print supports viewing distances closer than this, but I would NOT want to sit closer than 1 screen height (20 feet in this example) for the reasons mentioned. My personal preference for seating is 2 screen heights from the screen on the centerline of the theatre, or 40 feet in this example.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-18-2003 01:50 PM                     It doesn't just happen in movie theaters. It happens in stages too! We just remodeled our old "Little Theater". Here's a picture in the midst of the remodel. (Sorry 'bout the quality. I didn't take the photo.) There used to be only 180 seats in this auditorium. Now there are 250! That's even after I got them to take out 5 seats for handicaps! The first row of seats is only about 4 feet from the front of the stage. You can put your feet on the stage apron wall when you're sitting in those seats. The deck of the stage is 4 feet high. When sitting in the front row you can't even see all the way to the back of the stage. The aisles were narrowed from their old config. There's one more seat on the end of each row than there used to be. Now, people sitting in the end seats can see past the legs and into the wings. (Bad form for stages.) There were two more rows added to the back of the house as well. The back aisle is narrowed by about half of what it used to be. When we want to have a follow spot operator for this stage we USED to be able put in a wooden platform and put the spot on that. Now there is no room unless you block an egress aisle. (A BIG no-no!) I told the boss on several different occasions, "No, you don't want to put this many seats in this house." But he insisted that ne "needed" 250 seats or more. I said to him again, "You THINK you want this many seats but you REALLY don't want to do this!" For the side seats, we can just buy new legs (curtains) to mask the wings better. For the back rows, we'll just have to figure something else out... probably put the follow spot in the control booth. The front row is an abomination! Nobody shoud ever be forced to sit that close! I tried to tell the boss to leave out the front row of seats but he wouldn't do it. We would have lost only 16 seats from the house but he HAD to have 250 seats. We're already getting complaints but it's too late now. It's the same old sotry wherever you go!  |  IP: Logged Mark Lensenmayer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1605 From: Upper Arlington, OH Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-18-2003 02:26 PM                     John, Why was EG-18-1994 withdrawn? Is a new one in the works?  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-18-2003 02:35 PM                        While the original EG18 was very good, there have been some new trends that need to be covered, and some of the guidelines have been misinterpreted or misunderstood. A new one is in the works. The SMPTE Projection Technology (P3) Committee is looking for theatre architects and engineers who are professionally and directly involved in theatre design to participate in drafting a new Engineering Guideline, using much of the good work in EG18 as a starting point. Contact the P3 Chairman Pat Moore, or Mark Hyman at SMPTE headquarters: http://www.smpte.org/engineering_committees/  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-18-2003 04:01 PM                        We saw the David Copperfield stage show at the Alberta Bair Theatre in Billings, Montana. This is normally a great venue, great sound and all. For this show, we were happy to get front row seats...but when the show started, we couldn't hear a SINGLE WORD that Copperfield said. All we heard was echoes. The sound system is apparently "aimed" further back, or whatever. We were royally pissed. When we last remodeled my theatre (2002) we did away with the side seats, widened the aisles and moved them to the wall. While the very front rows are still too close for my personal taste, the kids (and some adults) love it there and would probably be pissed if the front rows were farther away from the screen.  |  IP: Logged Warren Smyth Expert Film Handler Posts: 158 From: Auckland ,New Zealand Registered: Aug 2003 posted 12-18-2003 06:11 PM                     I'm surprised that some exhibitors haven't had damages claims for neck strain in some multiplexes. Many auditoriums over here require patrons' heads to be tilted steeply upward if they are sitting in any of several rows at the front. Another problem is the "biggest is best" approach to screen size. This results in the practice of maintaining the same width for scope and wide screen, and dropping the top masking. Whilst a 40 foot wall to wall screen may be acceptable for scope, the result is ubearable for 1:1.85. The image lacks definition unless you are at least half way back in many of the auditoriums.  |  IP: Logged Mark Hajducki Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 500 From: Edinburgh, UK Registered: May 2003 posted 12-18-2003 06:49 PM                     quote: Another problem is the "biggest is best" approach to screen size. This results in the practice of maintaining the same width for scope and wide screen, and dropping the top masking. This combined with steep stadium seating gives the interesting effect of looking down on the picture in smaller houses  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-18-2003 07:56 PM                        i don't object to having seats go all the way down to the screen, but you should never sell so many tickets that people are required to sit there. it's just an option for those who want to. we have one guy, nearsighted as all hell, who only goes to our upstairs houses where he can sit a few feet away from the screen. different strokes. our official seating capacities are somewhat smaller than the actual number of seats, and even then i can't recall ever selling down to 0. carl  |  IP: Logged Jonathan M. Crist Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 531 From: Hershey, PA, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 12-18-2003 11:38 PM                     Mark if you were stupid enough to take those front seats instead of waiting for a different show, then you deserve what you get. Its not like it was the only theatre showing the picture or the only scheduled show. I would wager that LOTR3 will be on some screen somewhere in your area for at least the next three months. If for some reason you simply could not wait then you have no gounds for complaint.  |  IP: Logged

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