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Author Topic: Cleaning The Old ORC Hot Mirrors. Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 12-25-2003 03:16 PM                     When they get cloudy and grungy, normally the only way of making them right is by having them resurfaced. However, that costs alot of money. I have two mirrors (one from an XH-16S lamp and one from a Cine-X35) lamphouse that were is such bad shape it would surprise me if I got any light out of the lamphouse at all. Having absolutely nothing to lose, I soaked them in a mixture of Hydrogen Chloride, Ethylbenzyl Ammonium Chloride and warm water. It sure brightened those puppies up! However, I know they are still going to be inefficient, but they will work. In the past, I have tried several things such as a good quality silver polish, but it was so time consuming it was not worth the effort. What is a Hydrogen Chloride and Ethylbenzyl Ammonium Chloride mixture? Simple...Good old fashioned toilet bowl cleaner. Does anyone have any better suggestion so I don't have to immerse my hands in, basically, acid?  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 12-25-2003 03:39 PM                        quote: Does anyone have any better suggestion so I don't have to immerse my hands in, basically, acid? Gloves.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 12-25-2003 03:43 PM                     Yeah, Michael...Mine had a hole in them and I didn't know it.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 12-25-2003 06:20 PM                     Ultra-flat has a reflector cleaner which etches into the surface to help restore older style non-dicrohic reflectors as used in the ORC hardware.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-25-2003 06:57 PM                     I always used Mothers Polish...their cleaner first and then the actual polish itself. Generally ended up with very good results but it does rrequire alot of elbow grease. Mark  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-25-2003 07:26 PM                     I have had excellent luck with ultra flat cleaner  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-25-2003 09:53 PM                       I used to take ORC 6000 reflectors to a metal polishing shop in Houston and just let them do their thing. They always came back looking like new.  |  IP: Logged Bruk Mogos Film Handler Posts: 19 From: USA Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-26-2003 08:15 PM                     I just got some Ultra Clean Xenon and glass reflector cleaner from a co. in CA called UltraFlat. I will let you know how good is one I try it.I heard good things about this product.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-31-2003 12:09 PM                        Using an ACID cleaner (HCl, Muriatic Acid, Naval Jelly, CLR, toilet bowl cleaner, etc.) will certainly remove any surface tarnish, but you are likely also removing the thin and fragile dichroic coatings, changing the spectral characteristics of the mirror (affecting color temperature and heat damage).  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 12-31-2003 05:45 PM                     ORC products usually had hot reflectors so there is no concern about damaging a "gold" dichoric coating since there was none. We also had success with hazy non-pitted rodium / nickel plated reflectors by cleaning them with a motorized buffer wheel and jewelers rouge polish. This was a maintinance item we used to do with our rental ORC lamphouses due to humidity concerns in our region.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-31-2003 06:00 PM                     Slight topic redirection here... I've got two reflectors from Strong Super Lume X lamphouses that after only 100-200 hours are badly flaking, whereas others are running along fine and dandy, some with many years worth of daily service. (One of these reflectors is in my lamphouses that I purchased new for my screening room.) I also came across the same problem with a Strong upgrade kit for an older style Christie lamphouse a few years back. All of these have under 300 hours worth of operation and are in private installations. Any tips? I can't clean them because it makes it worse. I have not seen any "non-Super Lume X" reflectors from Strong have these problems.  |  IP: Logged Chris Hipp Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1462 From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas) Registered: Jul 2003 posted 12-31-2003 06:16 PM                     I had a 15" reflector for a highlight II start flaking after about 600 hours. We had some cooling issues in that house and I think that is what caused it. I wasnt paying attention and tried to clean it and it all flaked off and the light was horrible. On the other hand, I have some that have been flaking for a couple years and isn't affecting the light enough to notice.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-31-2003 06:21 PM                     Reflectors flaking is not that uncommon and can be caused by a couple of different things. One...lack of proper lamp cooling. You may also note that the deepest part of the reflector has also turned blueisn black. Two, They are defective reflectors. Strong, Christie, and Kmeisley have all experienced this same problem at least once or twice in the last 10 years. The dichro coating is actually a moleculuar coating thats just a couple of molecules thick and very delicate. Improper pre-cleaning of the reflector and improper operation of the equipment used to do the coating are two other causes. Unfortunately replacement of the reflector is the only actual fix. Ultraflat can do dicro coatings but they are VERY expensive for that process when only onesies and twosies are done. My Super Lum-Ex is at least 15 years old being a made in Toledo Strong model and the mirror is still fine. Mark  |  IP: Logged Matt Zeiner Expert Film Handler Posts: 146 From: Windsor, CT USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 12-31-2003 06:22 PM                     quote: Any tips? Yes. Call Strong and demand satisfaction (provided excessive heat didn't cause the issue to begin with - been there...)! 300 hours is hardly acceptable. In a full-time theatre that translates to approximately 6-8 weeks. Happy New Year, Y'awl. I have not seen any real problems with S-Lumex mirrors at all...  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 12-31-2003 06:42 PM                     I have had coating issues at one time or another with all manufacturers of lamphouses. In the USA most reflectors are sourced from two vendors, both of which have had delays or problems due to coating. The process is very delicate under clean room conditions. So if it is not a heat issue or a badly focused bulb too far rear in the reflector from the optimum F1 point of the reflector and if under warantee, ask for a replacement. Metal Dichroic relies greatly that the IR absorbed by the metal surface gets "wicked away" from the surface by forced air cooling as efficiently as possible; that is why we see so many air plenum box designs. Deep drawn metal reflectors are usually not recommended to be Dichoric coated due to heat elimination problems and this is where glass dichoric reflector, which allows the IR to completely pass through glass and be eliminated efficently are able to pass more light with less heat.  |  IP: Logged

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