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Author Topic: Dolby Digital vs. DTS Eric Hooper Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 532 From: Fort Worth, TX, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 12-28-2003 12:52 PM                     I recently saw two movies back to back. One being in Dolby Digital, the other in DTS. The DD sounded great. Lots of depth and clear sound. But when I watched the next movie in DTS, it sounded terrible. The sound seemed 'flat' and muffled. Diaolgue scenes were hard to understand and comprehend sometimes. The whole film seemed very quiet, and it, in my opinion, it totally ruined the movie. I have seen movies in DTS before where I've noticed how quiet and low the sound can be. I had just figured the theatre didn't have the sound turned up enough, or the speakers were bad or something. But after seeing the two movies back to back, I'm more convinced it is DTS in general that sucks. Any thoughts or opinions on this????  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-28-2003 12:54 PM                     This has been talked about adnauseum on the site so go search the site not start a new thread DTS is the most accurate reproduction of the master of all the system If there were problems it sounds like the installation  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-28-2003 01:09 PM                     Do the search and you'll find a lot of rants 'n' raves. The average listener will not be able to perceive a difference between the two systems if they are installed and aligned correctly. By your description, there is a problem with that DTS installation. Perhaps also there is a discrepancy between other components (speakers, etc). I would imagine that a fair A/B listening test would involve the same movie in the same room with switching occuring as the film plays continuously. And are you 100% certain they were actually playing the DTS track and not the optical...seeing the DTS trailer does not guarantee DTS playback. [ 05-27-2005, 02:42 AM: Message edited by: Manny Knowles ]  |  IP: Logged Eric Hooper Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 532 From: Fort Worth, TX, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 12-28-2003 01:47 PM                     OK, I went and did a search and found a few topics. Most seemed very Pro DTS and got very technical. But bottom line for me, I have ever only heard ONE movie sound good in DTS. Moulin Rouge showed in the DTS room at the UA Galaxy in SF and it blew me away. I had to go and double check with the manager to make sure that was DTS I had heard. Even he seemed surprised that I would compliment his theatre on the DTS. He said "Wow, usually DTS doesn't sound good". Now, I also saw Angel Eyes in the same auditorium a few months before, and it sounded like the usual, horrible flat quiet DTS I'm used to hearing. (The friend I was with commented that the sound system was terrible.) And every other movie I've seen around town with DTS advertised has sounded the same way - flat, quiet, and hard to hear. I even saw Moulin Rouge at other theatres in both DTS and DD and as always, the DTS sucked, and the DD sounded great! I do not work in the business, and neither do my friends I go to the movies with, so I guess you can call us 'the average patrons' and yes, WE do notice the difference.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-28-2003 01:52 PM                     Eric, the different formats are virtually indistinguishable, even the people at Dolby, dts and Sony have admitted this. When people visit my screening room I can show them first hand a truly FAIR comparison, for all of the 3 formats are ran through the Dolby's processor for EQing and I have their levels exactly matched. Sometimes I even switch randomly during a show to see if the "dts sounds MUCH better than the other formats because of it's higher bitrate" people can tell....which they never can. It's all in their heads. They see a higher number and believe that it is better than a competing digital format can provide, sort of like how the general public sees "digital projection" and suddenly believes the picture is better than film can provide. Now sure there are slight differences between the formats when given certain complexities of the sound, but even that is extremely minor. What you are hearing is an auditorium that has been tuned better than another. If you were to flip the SRD and DTS players between those two auditoriums, suddenly you would be saying that the SRD sounded bad. That's not the fault of the DTS system.  |  IP: Logged Greg Mueller Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1687 From: Port Gamble, WA Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-28-2003 02:12 PM                        As Manny said...It's those damn disks. Wrong disks, scratched disks, no disks. I used to be a real DTS fan, 100%...but now with the added problem of copy protection looming on the horizon, I think it's clear that (at least for me) SRD is the winner. Never thought I'd say that. The thing that made the disks at least easier to live with was that if you got some goofed up ones you could do a few copy tricks with them. Substitute corrupted files and so on. But now DTS plans to take away that "utility" factor. It seems like planned suicide to me. Maybe DTS is cheaper going in but what good is it to have hardware that has no software? If the studios are forcing DTS to copy protect their disks, then I think it might be a conspiracy to put DTS out of business.  |  IP: Logged Chris Hipp Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1462 From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas) Registered: Jul 2003 posted 12-28-2003 03:00 PM                     I have to agree that it is an improperly maintained system at fault. At my theater, our regional engineer only maintains the SDDS and pretty much ignores the dolby and DTS. So, you will get a poor DTS experience because of it. I do not have the equipment needed or I would do it myself. Our Dolby still sounds pretty good for not being EQ'd since the theater opened 5.5 years ago.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-28-2003 04:20 PM                     Some would say that no EQ might be better than a bad EQ. Your tech doesn't seem to care and that's a shame. One has to wonder why he would neglect the others. The reason that springs most readily to mind is perhaps he is more comfortable with SDDS. That is to say, he's out of his depth when it comes to the other two. Whatever you do, Chris...don't go losing your job or getting into hot water. I'm not saying "hands off" but just be sure that your superiors are okay with you going in and working on the equipment. Also, I'm assuming you know what to do.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-28-2003 04:37 PM                     If the DTS6 or 6d or a DA20 is connected to host processor there is really very little that needs attention other than the DTS level to be set Now if you have 6ad's cp500's or 650's then that would be a different story  |  IP: Logged Chris Hipp Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1462 From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas) Registered: Jul 2003 posted 12-28-2003 04:45 PM                     quote: I'm not saying "hands off" but just be sure that your superiors are okay with you going in and working on the equipment. Also, I'm assuming you know what to do. He's shown me how to do an EQ, it's jsut convincing my other bosses to let me spend the money on the needed equipment. I do most of the EQs, just with his equipment when he is there.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-28-2003 04:46 PM                     Any fair comparison HAS to be based on listening in the same room, on the same system, with both digital units set to reproduce exactly the same SPL levels....... If you feed both a DA-20 and a DTS 6D into the available digital inputs of a Panastereo CSP-1200 allowing instant A...B comparison there is but little sound difference on a properly set up JBL based 4670D system. YES, you have to use the correct analyzer, THX R-2, to be absolutley sure the B chain system is conforming to a known standard. NO other analyzer will suffice for this sort of testing. Listening on a high quality three way system such as the JBL 5672 the DTS will win by a fair margin, especially on the higher octave resolution ability. Another interesting experiment is to listen to a good dynamic SRD special effects film with just the left or right channel going. The acoustical masking used by Dolby in the SRD encoding can become quite apparent with just a single channel open. This is hardly noticable at all on left or right chan only DTS playback. Also please note that some SRD films will display this phenomina more than others and it seems to be dependent on the level of the data rate required for individual channels. All in all if you listened to them on the same "average 4670D" system and both the DTS and the DA-20 were perfectly level matched you'd hardly notice any difference at all. Mark  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-28-2003 04:57 PM                     Too bad the R2 is out of production. In light of that, we really shouldn't be holding it up as a standard bearer until it becomes accessible again in some manifestation.  |  IP: Logged Matt Zeiner Expert Film Handler Posts: 146 From: Windsor, CT USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 12-28-2003 05:21 PM                     I dunno, Mark - seems like we could leave the R-2 out of the equation for this type of test. I don't see why the analyzer used would make a shit of difference when comparing systems run through the same B-chain. Its a great tool, but it is by no means the only means, nor am I convinced that it is the best means. Those mics suck. Good point about dropping the center channel on SR-D, tho. Makes it very easy to tell the difference.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-28-2003 05:21 PM                     No it should be held up as the membership card to the club:) Just because it isn't made doesn't mean it isn't the best But to be far there are many other RTA's and multiplexers out there The skill at using it is the key more than the hardware  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-28-2003 05:36 PM                     When critical comparison of any type of equipment at the head end is made it is a good idea and starting place to know what your B chain is doing. If you can't be sure that your system B chain is following the 2969 curve and operating properly then any comparison is pretty much meaningless. If there are irregularities in the response curve and balance is off then why even listen at all. The case of analyzer being used is due to it being pretty much the standard for this work. If anyone else knows of another comparable "standard" out there....except for the upcomming one to replace it..... I'd like to know about it? As for the mics on the R-2...they were chosen because they can do the job and they kept the cost of the system at a level that just about any serious tech could afford. The "Live" sound direct out of the mics has nothing to do with how the analyzer works at all. Also, consider that it is very close to having the condenser element itself in free air. Only the screen is there to protect the element. I agree, it is very unfortunate that its no longer prodused. Thats also why I preach not to base a cimema syatem on a digital type processor!! Digital components become obsolete far too quickly while analog components, with the exception of a few, are around practically forever and are continually improved. Mark  |  IP: Logged

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