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Author Topic: One Projector, Two Screens Paul Turner Expert Film Handler Posts: 115 From: Corvallis, OR, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 01-03-2004 01:57 PM                     I’m in the process of trying to get the city to let me convert a space to make into three or four more screens. One of the reasons the city is even considering this is I’m making the auditoriums very small – 50 seats each(I need a place to play out art house product). I have two Cinemeccanica V4s which are all set up to be interlocked. Now, being prone to thinking too much, I got to wondering if anyone had ever projected into two auditoriums with one projector by using a beam splitter and first surface mirror. Since my throws will be minimal and the projectors have 2k lamps, I figured light loss wouldn’t be a problem. I’d be worried about optical quality more than anything. Since I’m building the booths I can set ‘em up almost any way I want. I did a quick search to see if anyone had written about this here. Nothing came up. Edmond Scientific has the beam splitters but their first surface mirrors are small. Any one have a source for these? Since this stuff seems relatively inexpensive, I figured I’d mess with it anyway. Just wondering if this road has been traveled before. Thanks.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-03-2004 02:06 PM                     Why not 1 projector, 120 screens?  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-03-2004 02:15 PM                     Since you're only going to show two movies, why not just build a twin instead of a quad?  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 01-03-2004 02:26 PM                     It can be done but scale it out on paper since the final throw to each screen has to be the exact same distance due to focus. You may also have reversal factors using mirrors and beam splitter to hit a second screen. Large optical grade mylar tension front surface mirrors which are light weight are available from Hudson Photographic and Vutec. I have a rear projection set up that has been in operation for 9 years with a 3 x 5 foot mylar front surface mirror to a 10 x 20 foot screen. The mirror is covered with a dust bag when not in use and is kept clean with compressed air. In the end it may be better ( probably cheaper ) to get more projectors with a 500 - 1000 xenon lamphouse and interlock.  |  IP: Logged Paul Turner Expert Film Handler Posts: 115 From: Corvallis, OR, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 01-03-2004 02:48 PM                     Thanks for the input. I would love to do this as two larger auditoriums, but I’m dodging a body of regulation that would kick in as soon as the occupancy of each auditorium exceeds 49. If I go into that territory, I’m looking at $300k in building upgrades (it's only about 1/20th of that for another booth and aud). That story alone warrants a couple threads … Mr. Fowler makes a good point: focus will be dependant on equal distance from lens to screen(s). I’m not sure how practical it would be though rack a screen back and forth for focus – though it might be stunning f/x during a boring film. After looking at 120 screen drive-in, I feel I’m not as far out into the ozone as I suspected …  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-03-2004 07:09 PM                     Would this approach be within the realm of "film done right" ?  |  IP: Logged Paul Turner Expert Film Handler Posts: 115 From: Corvallis, OR, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 01-04-2004 01:06 AM                     Whether this can be "Film Done Right" is the question. The auditoriums will be to spec. I wanted to know if anyone else has done this, and how it came out. Rear projection can be "Film Done Right" and that process shares some characteristics of what I'm trying to do here. Again, thanks for your input.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-04-2004 01:57 PM                     The mirror beam splitter thing may prove to be quite annoying...you will have mirrors and a picture that is getting quite big. Also note, as the picture gets bigger, those mirrors will help magnify and vibrations. Consider an "MPAA" delite system. Project on one screen and have a good quality video camera looking at that screen...then send the picture to a good video projector (a 50-seat rooms isn't going to be too taxing on a video projector). Then you will have your 2-screens for one and a means to play video sources too. Steve  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-04-2004 02:23 PM                     Would the distributors really permit that? I also wonder if there would be issues with people just not wanting to end up in the video room. Why not leave those extra two theatres dark until you can outfit them with projectors of their own? As each one opens, you have a perfect opportunity to turn it into a community event.  |  IP: Logged Peter Schoell Film Handler Posts: 47 From: Paynesville, MN, USA Registered: Jul 2001 posted 01-04-2004 03:53 PM                     Steve's plan sounds interesting. I'm toying with a small "hold" screen and was going to use mirrors. As Steve suggested the second mirror would be quite big, and then there is the alignment to deal with. Would you run into any sync problems with the video projected image? Any suggestions for the video equipment? For my situation this would work well because I could put the projector any where in the building and shoot the image onto as small a screen as possible, also a screen without holes.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-04-2004 06:56 PM                        For video, you would need either a 5-blade shutter for the projector or a 24P camera that can convert to 60i NTSC. Otherwise you will get flicker in the video image. Alternatively, you could run the film projector at 25fps and use a PAL camera and get a projector that can accept a PAL input (most can). A good video projector will probably cost as much as or more than a good rebuilt film projector, so it probably only makes sense to consider this if you want video capability anyway. Brad has a (relatively) inexpensive 24P camera and can probably answer any questions you might have about it.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-04-2004 08:49 PM                     I actually didn't invent the idea...there is a view-n-brew in this area that is using one film projector and 3-screens (2-video). Now with a 50-seat room..how big is the screen? 8-feet tall? You could fool most of the people most of the time. Heck with a 2KW lamp...a 5-wing shutter would probably still have enough light... You could also have one telecine (projector with 5-wing shutter) and two video projectors so both are treated equally. As to the distributors...so long as you don't duplicate the film (on storage media...like DVDs and such) it is no more offensive than running "interlock." What they want is the revenue from ticket sales and adding seating capacity only helps their cause. Steve  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-04-2004 09:04 PM                     I can't possibly imagine the distributors permitting anyone to video(tape) a movie, even if it is just being used as an "interlock" sort of situation without a recording device. The whole thing would need to be set up to a pretty high degree of quality for it to be acceptable...and at that point what is preventing you from hooking up a VCR and recording it? Valenti probably loses his lunch at Wal-Mart just seeing blank videotapes. No way would he let such a thing pass. Besides, if you're going to go to that much trouble, it would be SO MUCH EASIER to just record the "bootleg" and play that tape back in the other auditorium with staggered show times. So long as you destroy the tape when you lose the movie, it's ok, right? NOPE! I have a Panasonic DVX-100, which is a MiniDV 24P camera. I have done a test of pointing it at the screen during junk film and an empty gate. Indeed it is flickerless, as it is really capturing at 24P. There was some debate about how it was just simulating 24 frames per second, but nope, it really is 24P. At the resolution of DV, you're only looking at roughly DVD quality though. That's nowhere good enough for a second screen anyway. And no Jack, I have never used it to pirate a film and never will!  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-04-2004 09:05 PM                     As far as I'm concerned, this notion of using video is just wrong. You're supposed to play the movie in the correct format and to a certain technical spec standard. With that in mind, using video is not too different from playing a flat movie with a scope lens -- or even playing a stereo movie in mono (in this day and age). And why do some movies (e.g. "Star Wars") come with a "no interlock" clause written into the contract?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-04-2004 09:10 PM                     My only guess is that the film might get damaged or the movie would be played in a "lesser" auditorium. While I can understand not wanting the new Star Wars movie played in that mono house on opening week, any theater that knows how to take care of film will be able to handle an interlock without damaging it. Anyone know the official reasoning?  |  IP: Logged

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