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Author Topic: FM35 Cue Placement for Lights Down Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 01-06-2004 11:26 PM                        We're replacing our old 2-level Atmos mechanical dimmers with new 3-position solid-state ones. Is there a favored cue position for lights down (after trailers/policy strips)? At the end of the show, do you use the shutdown cue to trigger "full-up", or a separately placed cue? We're running TA-10 automations with FM-35 detectors.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 01-07-2004 12:16 AM                     You may have to possibly 'reprogram' the TA-10 (using diodes and jumpers per the manual) to add the extra steps into its operating sequence to handle the extra dimming cues. If you already have enough steps already built into it you are probably OK then. (most factory 'stock' TA-10s have several built in to handle most any situation) With half-light dimmers I place the full-up command on the dowser close cue point. -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-07-2004 03:04 AM                     Are you asking about where to place the actual foil cue? Or where in the sequence would be a good place to program the event? I'm using a different automation which doesn't rely on placing the foil tape in different places. All our cues use the centre detector. Brad hates this but it's a preference thing. I don't like using the edges. FWIW we decided to program the "lights down" cue as we transition out of ads and into previews. The physical cue is at the end of the policy trailer. PAID ADS POLICY (with lights cue) TRAILERS We raise the lights to 1/2 as the credits roll and then a timed cue raises them to full brightness 60sec later. In almost every instance, there are no customers reading credits and, even so, they can do this with the lights on. Ushers usually sieze the opportunity to clean the theatre if no customers are reading credits (or enjoying theme music). When the dowser closes at the end of the credits, the house returns to 1/2 light level. I prefer this to having the audience sit in a brightly lit room as they wait for showtime. It's a mood thing, I guess.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-07-2004 05:43 AM                        why have them on full for most of the credits if they evidently are not needed for people to find their way? i'm a credit watcher, and if i get to a movie early i like to read or do a crossword. your lighting scheme is reversed. when you put a center cue, which side of the film do you put it on? with an edge cue, you can usually remove it without harm to the emulsion, but center cues can be impossible to take off without scratching (did it just last week--the print came in with, count 'em, 7 cues on just the credits and tail). jack, we put our lights-out cue at the very start of the feature, 1/2 up at the start of the credits (or maybe later if there are outtakes or other visual content), and the end of show cue (or possibly the dowser close some seconds later) triggers full up. carl  |  IP: Logged Stephen Wilkinson Film Handler Posts: 17 From: Kincumber, NSW, Australia Registered: Oct 2002 posted 01-07-2004 06:56 AM                        Like Manny and most of Australian cinemas we place our foil in the center of the film. We're using the FM 35's and Panalogic CA2000 automation. (so numerous things can happen at once with one foil cue) I wasn't keen on using center cues for the above reason plus you see it on a scope film (black flash or 2 quick ones depending on where you place it.) But considering most cinemas use at least a center cue for lights up at start of credits, and most leave the foil on, I decided to conform! We run our lights this way: SLIDES - 1/2 light FILM ADS - 1/2 light Trailers - 1/4 light (people still come in during trailers) SRD Tags - Fade out (At Head of Tag) Beg Credits - 1/4 for 45secs then to 1/2 light till closer. (on closer screen lights come up to full before last black) We find 45secs is "usually" till the end of the cast credits. If there are bloopers we keep lights at 1/4 level. I remember going to see a movie in a suburb of LA late 1999 while on vacation. When the credits came on, No lights, then when the cast had finished the lights came on. They went from nothing to FULL in 2 seconds. You should of heard the mass of groans. Jack I hope this is of some help. Stephen PS I've known some cinemas to program the automation to turn the sound down to 1/2 when the credits come on. Not Good!  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 01-07-2004 08:55 AM                        Thanks, guys. I was actually fishing for most of the above. It's a shame that physical cue placement seems to be so non-standardized, though I guess nobody would generally use the last guy's foils. The practice of going "full-up" somewhere during the credits is interesting, but we'd probably get complaints from the credit watchers here, too. For that matter though, I guess I'd have to ask what "full-up" is. Our auditoriums were lamped at wattages high enough to be used for janitorial purposes, but too high for normal operating, so our "high" position is actually some level below 100%. I don't see too many other theatre's "back rooms" these days, but like us, I guess most of you have some kind of "bypass" "janitorial" or "panic" switch to allow your lights to be brought to 100% from downstairs.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-07-2004 10:16 AM                     quote: why have them on full for most of the credits if they evidently are not needed for people to find their way? i'm a credit watcher, and if i get to a movie early i like to read or do a crossword. your lighting scheme is reversed. The full lights during credits are intended for cleaning. Nobody here reads credits, it's a cultural fact. We don't allow crossword puzzles or outside food. My lighting scheme is perfect.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-07-2004 10:54 AM                     I have my TA-10 programmed so that: OUTBOARD Cue = Lights OUT INBOARD Cue = Lights to 1/2 CENTER Cue = Stop/Intermission cue. This prevents the Center cue from showing at any time there is picture on the screen. If you place it after the blue band or in the black film after the credits end you'll never see it unless you're really looking for it. The FM-35 series detecors should be able to sense a foil strip that is as short as one sprocket hole long. (I assume you are using foil strips for cues.) I tell my students to make them FOUR sprocket holes long. First, this assures that the detector will sense it under 99.9% of all conditions. Second, it makes them more visible to the operator as they go through so they know if the machine is working right. The INBOARD and OUTBOARD cues are invisible on the screen if they are applied right. The CENTER cue comes at the end of the show, thus even if it is seen on screen it won't matter.  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: California, U.S.A. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 01-07-2004 12:49 PM                     At the house I worked at that had automated lights we had a separate set of lights for the janitors and the house lights at full were quite nicely aligned so as not to shine all over the screen (well placed recessed lighting). My cues have always been as follows... FM35 and TA10 Start button = Half lights (which was perfect, just enough to see not enough to interfere) At the end of our company logo it was black film so the lights down was a quarter inch square in the center. Lights up to half = Inboard cue (another quarter inch square) Lights up full/End of show = Outboard cue (another quarter inch square) placed seven feet before the rating band. (Right around the end of the studio logo) The only time I had trouble with the small cues was when I was away and the nimrod they had up there for the week didn't clean anything and put the cues halfway into the picture. Otherwise all ran great.  |  IP: Logged Scott D. Neff Theatre Dork Posts: 919 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Oct 1999 posted 01-07-2004 03:58 PM                        I always liked my set-up at Cinema West. Outboard cue = lights down for show / attempt switch to digital/SR Center cue = lights up to half Inboard cue = shut down sequence + lights up. It was nice.  |  IP: Logged Ken Layton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1452 From: Olympia, Wash. USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 01-07-2004 05:29 PM                     Dominic's reply sounds like the way ACT 3 theaters here in the northwest did their light cues.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 01-07-2004 05:29 PM                    Ew...visible cues.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-07-2004 05:43 PM                        Visible cues suck. At the 6-plex, the FM35/TA10 setup was configured in this way: - inboard (non-soundtrack edge) - lights mid - outboard (soundtrack edge) - end of show (lights up and changeover close) - inboard and outboard - lights down - center - CP500 SK2 (currently 04 - Dolby A) - inboard and center - CP500 SK1 (currently 05 - Dolby SR with auto-digital) - used for feature start - outboard and center - CP500 SK4 (currently modified 05 without auto-digital and at fader setting 4.5 for trailers) This setup is pretty good to the extent that the only visible cues "should" be on Dolby A films, which we almost never get. The light cues don't cover the picture or soundtrack area and the sound cues always go on black leader (mag film) and thus don't show up on screen.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-08-2004 04:30 AM                        quote: We don't allow crossword puzzles or outside food. you just lost my business. plus you're really really far away! i forgot to mention my other beef with center only cues. you can't feel them during inspection. if you know where you put them you can find them, but if the last people didn't remove them you might not find out until it's on the screen and a big pain to deal with. carl  |  IP: Logged Stephen Wilkinson Film Handler Posts: 17 From: Kincumber, NSW, Australia Registered: Oct 2002 posted 01-09-2004 05:19 AM                        The "Full" isn't really full for House Lights (beg and end of show), there is a "Real Full" 100% preset, that's not wired to automation, which we call "Clean", staff select that for cleaning between sessions. There is a hidden control for lights in the auditorium. We also have Janitor "Work Lights", which are a number of 150Watt Halogen flood lights, they help to find all that lost loose change. Center cues are always placed on frame lines, so they are never seen in Flat films. The only time you see a tiny black flash is at the beginning of credits on a Scope film and then most of the time the picture is black, same with the tail (close down foil). Outboard foils are sometimes used aswell for lens changes, at beg and end of feature, at one chain. Unfortunately when 90% of theatres do it, (and don't remove foils) it's safer to do it the same, it becomes a "suedo" standard.  |  IP: Logged

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