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Author Topic: Filmguard on 16mm work prints? Alain LeTourneau Film Handler Posts: 37 From: Portland, OR Registered: Jan 2004 posted 03-12-2004 07:32 PM                        How does filmguard work on 16mm work prints? I can only apply cleaner by the rewind method, but wanted to try a cleaner that lubricates in order to steady the print during projection (both camera and projector are to manufacturer's tolerances so the problem is not there). I get prints back from the lab and they run with a slight vertical bounce. Thanks, Alain  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-13-2004 04:04 AM                     FG will work fine on 16mm. I would recommend (as I always do) that you simply take a 35mm or 70mm cleaning machine and modify the drive wheel to 16mm width. It provides the best and smoothest possible application. If you need, I can supply you with 16mm gauge media pads.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 03-13-2004 06:49 AM                        I've used FG on a wide range of 16mm viewing copies, ranging from '30s propionate and diacetate elements to '90s polyester ones. I've got nothing but positive things to say about it. It lubricates the passage of shrunk and brittle stock through a projector or telecine, fills in base scratches and lifts off dirt very effectively. Not quite as good as a full scale ultrasonic job: but given the difference in price, the fact that the two treatments are even in the same ballpark is pretty remarkable. My only caveat with hand application would be my experience that the solvent in FG can dissolve the adhesive in tape joins, thereby causing them to come apart. I would suggest replacing tape joins with cement before application and projection in the case of acetate elements. Obviously you can't do that with polyester and ultrasonic splicers ain't cheap, though.  |  IP: Logged Christian Appelt Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 505 From: Frankfurt, Germany Registered: Dec 2001 posted 03-13-2004 02:08 PM                     I definitely recommend it on work prints, both 16 and 35mm (70mm should be OK too ). Apply FG when the rushes comes straight from the lab, this eliminates shedding and gives them a certain protection when they are run through editing equipment, be it a KEM/Steenbeck or Moviola type. When we had the first rough cut ready, we would clean the print again and never had any trouble with our splices. A nice effect is that if you have small scratches and cinch marks (it just happens when editing on film), FilmGuard will cover them up and besides cleaning off any debris and dirt, it gives you a kind of "wet gate" projection. Which is great when you want to screen your work print to investors, distributors and other people who are used to a "clean" video image.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 03-13-2004 02:18 PM                    How about 8MM film. I have a bunch of home movies that I would like to try and transfer to video but would like to clean them up first. for the best possable image. I know the work would have to be done by hand. Would there be any adverse effect on 8MM film.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-13-2004 03:06 PM                     Not a problem. Kodachrome, Ektachrome, Fuji, etc...it's all fine. It does a nice job of cleaning up 8mm mag tracks as well.  |  IP: Logged Alain LeTourneau Film Handler Posts: 37 From: Portland, OR Registered: Jan 2004 posted 03-14-2004 05:38 PM                        A couple of responses here... I would have to apply FG with wipes of some kind since I do not have an applicator of any kind (not Ecco D or otherwise). I'm assuming this is an ok method of application? I'm also a little confused about whether or not FG dissolves splice tape adhesive. Leo says "yes" and Christian says "not a problem". Can anyone else weigh in on this? Thanks, Alain  |  IP: Logged Christian Appelt Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 505 From: Frankfurt, Germany Registered: Dec 2001 posted 03-14-2004 06:00 PM                     Maybe it depends on the brand of splicing tape and how good the splices were made. I don't know about long time effects, but my films cleaned with FG run through a Steenbeck and most have been projected two or three years after treatment without any problem. FG was applied with a small microfiber cloth (for cleaning delicate surfaces) or leftover cleaning tape from an old Lipsner-Smith film cleaner (soft cotton, I suppose?). I have seen so many workprints that were spliced quite rough, with the tape not correctly pressed at the edges. Maybe FG will have an effect if it can get under the tape layer.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-14-2004 06:39 PM                     If you follow the instructions and aren't using super cheap splicing tape, then FG won't have an effect. If the tape is low quality or you are dousing the film, then it can loosen tape splices.  |  IP: Logged Alain LeTourneau Film Handler Posts: 37 From: Portland, OR Registered: Jan 2004 posted 03-14-2004 09:30 PM                        I used 3M perforatted splice tape (Now use FPC) in splicing work print. I also use Neumade splice tape on my Neutaper SDS splicer when splicing reversal original for contact printing. Are the above "high" quality? And what about applying FG with an Ecco D applicator. Is it worth purchasing this device for applying FG or can it be managed just as well with a wipe and running the film through your hands? Alain  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-14-2004 09:46 PM                     I can vouch for the Neumade as being a good choice. I've never used the 3M/FPC tape. Don't waste your money with the ECCO. If you can't use a Kelmar cleaner, you're better off cleaning by hand. Just remember it only takes about an ounce to clean 2 hours of 35mm film. A little goes a long way.  |  IP: Logged Chris Hipp Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1462 From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas) Registered: Jul 2003 posted 03-14-2004 09:54 PM                     Brad, have you ever considered selling graduated bottles? I know it doesnt matter using a cleaner but I dont really know how much an ounce is. Plus I'm sure there are alot of theatres out there without cleaners.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-14-2004 09:59 PM                     It wouldn't much matter. Due to the variations in everyone's setups (some cleaners run faster, some people cut the media in half, etc), a marked bottle wouldn't do much good.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 03-14-2004 10:10 PM                     Err, Brad, a marked bottle would let each operator more easily measure how much they were using, potentially useful for their own tracking and comparisons, not necessarily for comparisons with other theatres. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-14-2004 10:20 PM                     Err, John, most theaters just use what they need to do the job and don't spend time making elaborate tracking charts.  |  IP: Logged

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