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Author Topic: Larger hub or more tail? Thomas Jonsson Expert Film Handler Posts: 216 From: Bromolla, Sweden Registered: Sep 2003 posted 04-18-2004 10:26 AM                       I run change-over with 6000 ft reels with a 6 inch hub. Sooner or later the end of the reels get "rainy", no matter how much you keep the projector and booth clean. What´s the best way to prevent this - add more tail at the end of the reel or get reels with a larger hub? Thomas  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-18-2004 10:32 AM                     Both are a good idea as well as controling rewind speed highspeed rewinding can cause the film to slip against itself when the reel stops causing the cinch marks  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-18-2004 10:36 AM                        Are you using fixed-hub or floating-hub reels? You shouldn't have problems with cinch marks if you use floating-hub reels (for both feed and takeup) and a rewind bench with an adjustable speed control that can be regulated to avoid fast starts and stops. Adding extra head and tail leader is, of course, a good idea regardless. No doubt that Brad will post here soon to extol the virtues of Christie platters.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 04-18-2004 11:13 AM                     You might try increasing the take up tension to reduce the film from sliding, but don't over-do it. Don't use rewind table shut-off arm rollers that ride on the film (like a Kelmar.) Wrap junk film around both the feed and take up reel hub to increase the diameter (the film can get really stretched as the projector tries to pull film off of a small diameter feed reel.) Go easy on rewind speed, and slow it gently down before it comes off the end.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Jonsson Expert Film Handler Posts: 216 From: Bromolla, Sweden Registered: Sep 2003 posted 04-18-2004 11:13 AM                       It´s wire spools with fixed hubs. The rewinder has variable speed, and rewinding is very slow. Friction on both projectors and rewinder are as little as possible. Still this annoying "rain" occour now and then. I want to get rid of this - but what´s the best solution: a larger hub or more tail. Or is the result the same? Thomas  |  IP: Logged Floyd Justin Newton Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 559 From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA Registered: Jun 2002 posted 04-18-2004 11:25 AM                     Thomas--- There is a product called 'Film Guard' that's available throughout the world. Just 'click' the Product button to the left. fjn Local 294 Ret.  |  IP: Logged Bruce Hansen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 847 From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-18-2004 11:25 AM                     Do you happen to use film guard? It may help. (It works on water skis as well ). Be sure to keep the film clean, don't let the leaders hit the floor.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-18-2004 12:43 PM                     As to eliminating the "rain" that is almost exclusively the result of insufficient protective leader at both ends of the reel. Going to larger and floating hubs will minimize potential damage on start ups and rewinds since only the hub must be broken from static friction rather than the whole reel (spool). What I have done since the era of disposable previews (Trailers) is to recycle them into scrap leader...Be generous...add a minimum of 15' to both ends and ONLY handle the film by the scrap leader...splice it in frame and thread up on that...then wind the projector down to the count down...don't touch the film past the "ID" section. The dirt you keep off by following the above procedures will eliminate the streaks you see. As to Film-Guard...it will keep the whole shebang clean...beginning to end. However, it is not subsitute for keeping your fingers off of the film. When you send that film out...pull off your scrap film and throw it away and put new scrap film on the next feature...one should not be able to tell you handled the film at all. Steve [ 04-18-2004, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Steve Guttag ]  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-18-2004 02:12 PM                     I agree with Steve that the biggest problem here is insufficient head and tail leader. Steve recommends 15 feet extra at each end (that's in addition to the lab leader), but my minimum is 25. If you are threading on the actual lab leader and/or have not added extra junk leader on each end, you are creating those cinch marks (rain) because of it.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Jonsson Expert Film Handler Posts: 216 From: Bromolla, Sweden Registered: Sep 2003 posted 04-18-2004 02:42 PM                       Thanks for all replys. So larger hubs won´t do the trick, then? It´s the added junk leader that does it. I will certainly try it. As for FilmGuard - any dealer in Scandinavia? Thomas  |  IP: Logged Bevan Wright Expert Film Handler Posts: 176 From: Fountain Valley, CA, USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 04-18-2004 10:05 PM                        Always go for 'more tail'..... sorry, obvious softball and no one was taking a swing at it.  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 04-18-2004 10:38 PM                  Some always go for a 'larger hub'.... sorry, obvious hardball and no one was taking a swing at it. (With apologies to Bevan for twisting his words into mine...) >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Peter Kerchinsky Master Film Handler Posts: 326 From: Seattle, WA, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 04-19-2004 05:02 AM                     To avoid "rain" on prints..... dump the 6000 foot reels and get Christie platter. All those ideas suggested in earlier threads have been tried here to no avail. The prints still have the "rain" or whatever at both the start of the film, the reel change, and the end. Expect it with reel to reel, especially when you run many showings. Sorry Brad that I may have beat you to the punch on how good Christies are on film handling. No worries here, mate!  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 04-19-2004 05:46 AM                     Shouldn't have this problem running reel to reel, even after very long runs. Correct tension, neither too high nor too low is important, both when projecting and rewinding. don't let the end touch the floor. Rewind slowly, I generally do it at about 2-3 times running speed if using a powered rewind bench, slightly faster on hand ones to avoid spending most of my time rewinding film. I like a long enough tail on the film that I can spend a couple of seconds to check, and if necessary adjust, the picture after a changeover, then walk to the other machine while the film is still running through. I press the stop button just before the end, so that it comes through, as the speed runs down, and I can grab the end, to prevet it dropping on the floor. If the spool is still turning, it's important not to hold the end still, so you are pulling on the film, but to follow round the rotation of the spool with it. If the machine stops before the film has completely run through I just inch the last bit through by hand. I find the most wear/damage to prints is cause by making up/breaking down, rather than by projection or rewinding. If you've got a print that's been made up and broken twenty, thirty or more times, and only run a few times at each location tends to be in much worse shape than one that's been run hundreds of times, without repeated making up and breaking down.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-19-2004 09:27 AM                     Rewind tension and speed are very important For years in our old 3d theatre at ontario place we used drypur rollers on the rewind bench to clean and also maintain even drag on the print during rewind and we would typicall run 2000' passes during a summer on asingle print with no rain  |  IP: Logged

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