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Author Topic: Changing sound reproducers,rotation of projection head doesn't match with SH. Luciano Brigite Master Film Handler Posts: 277 From: Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-06-2004 10:00 AM                     Hello, I'm having a problem with a Westrex Standard (model on ID plate is R6) SH and the projection head (Unknown make for all foreign techs,since it's a brazilian junk )The previous setup had an old Simplex SH (from the time of Supers,I believe) and the gears inside the SH worn out and locked up,being an old stuff, it was decided to have the SH replaced since the westrex SH was available at the theatre, now the problem with it is : the shaft and pulley on the Simplex SH that used to drive the rest of the projector spins counterclockwise ,same rotation as the mechanism, now the Westrex turns clockwise,opposite to the mechanism.Is there anything that can be done in the projection mech to revert it's rotation? (like changing a gear's position or something so the input rotation goes from counterclockwise to clockwise).Or should I jump on it with a large hammer on hand,turn everything into tinny pieces and kicks some sense into the theatre's owner to get a decent projector... ( or another junk that'll run for at least 3~4 months after I give the finger in being a tech and stop burning my brain and watch my hair falls out, wich I plan to do by the end of the month. other reasons as lack of a honest,decent supplier,a machine shop that'll deliver parts on time among other things are making me go out of it :/ ) Thanks!  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 05-06-2004 11:00 PM                     Luciano, I am scratching my head on this one.... One question I would like to ask...is the soundhead sprocket turning in the right direction? If not, you have two options. The first with a single-phase motor: Reverse the connections on the start winding. If it is a three phase motor, simply reverse the the connections of any two of the three phases. That'll change the direction of rotation if it is running backwards.  |  IP: Logged Luciano Brigite Master Film Handler Posts: 277 From: Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-07-2004 10:42 AM                     Paul, Yes, the sprocket in the sound reproducer is turning in the right direction.The problem with it is: Looking at the non operating side of it,the pulleys in the sound reproducer turns clockwise (on the operating side, it'll be turning counterclockwise,wich is the right direction for it) now, the projection head's pulley on the non operating side turns counterclockwise (the opposite to the sound reproducer).both, the sound reproducer and projection head are belt driven then it means that both have to turn to the same direction ,and this is the problem since they don't. The Westrex R6 seems the same as the Century R3 standard drive version.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-07-2004 12:31 PM                     I beleive there were no adapters for other projectors to be used on the century styled soundheads  |  IP: Logged Luciano Brigite Master Film Handler Posts: 277 From: Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-07-2004 06:57 PM                     With the previous sound reproducer there was no adapter plate. and the original holes in the SH and in the projection mech doesn't match. same happened with the Westrex. the solution used by everyone here in order to yank out people's money and get free of some junk is place the mech on top of the SH, align it +/-(or not align at all!),mark holes on the casting, take out mech,drill holes and stuff the screw into it,send it out to the theatre, when it gives problem, give the theatre owner the finger and asks him for lots more $$ for something that should be in junk many many years ago.. I'm tired of this kind of thing. Now I only want to have this junk running then getting the parts I need for another SH (this one for myself)to have it running before I toss out all the other junk I have by the end of the month.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-07-2004 07:53 PM                     I have done several X-L to Century R-3 adaptations. Its quite easy to do and the standard Five Star XL pulleys and belts all fit right on the equipment. You need to reverse the motor rotation of the sound head as the Simplex is driven the oposite direction. Then you have to add a roller to re-route the film around the other side of the sound head sprocket as well as shave the film stripper off of the Century Pad Roller. Just fashion another film stripper as if it were a flag type stripper and mount it in the left over available space. Although this is a rarely seen combination of projctor and soundhead it is really an excellent running pair. I deeloped this for customers that absolutely would not buy a Five Star sound head. Mark  |  IP: Logged Luciano Brigite Master Film Handler Posts: 277 From: Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-07-2004 10:35 PM                     The projection head isn't a XL,but is a clone of one made here in Brazil. the sound reproducer that locked up was an old Simplex ( the ones used with the Super's or E7's)Now the combination is the XL clone and a Westrex reproducer.(the Westrex R6 looks the same as the Century R3-Std drive version) I'll try Mark's idea and see what turns out. it'll be a shame do mods in this reproducer since it seems to be brand new and doesn't show signs of use. it even has the old phototube in it ( well.. had, it now has a stereo cell in there) but ah well.. it's about 12:30 am and the theatre owner is calling me to know about his junk .. his show is only one at 8:00 pm ,still the same film from last week that he was complaining that only 10 people showed up to see one day before the junk locked I think I'm cursed with some kind of soundhead plague.. because my 3 projectors have some problem with their repoducers..and from the 7 theatres I serviced from last year until now, only one didn't annoyed me with the SH..  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-07-2004 11:00 PM                     Luciano, The Somplex SH-1000 is about the best sound head ever made and is easily repairable!! Its still probably the most widely used sound head in the U.S. I'm assuming that by locked up that you mean thet the bronze gears are failing. If your sound heads gears have a relatively short life then the pinion is also bad. I find it common that technicians often overlook the pinion which is the real cause of many a bronze gear failure. At one new customer in Wyoming a couple of weeks ago they had gotten a rebuilt gearbox from another dealer that had gone out of buisness. Not only was that pinion in the rebuilt box bad but you could see that the pinion made little teeth marks on the contacting face of the bronze gear, all just by turning the gearbox over by hand. Needless to say I replaced the pinion and all is well. According to the owners they have gone through alot of bronze gears in the last two years. That cost them alot of $$ plus the down time and lost revenue as they are pretty far out in the counrty. They even have a spare gearbox they don't really even need!  |  IP: Logged Luciano Brigite Master Film Handler Posts: 277 From: Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-08-2004 06:57 PM                     I followed Mark's sugestion and it's now running as it should be, added a guide roller next to the sprocket to reroute the film and the stripper is gone from the roller's arm, it's now a piece of metal sheet cut and bolted under the sprocket.During the test run I disassembled the Simplex gearbox and.. where's the oil??? instead of it I found a bunch of gunk (looked more like a mix of grease and grade 90 oil) and lots of bronze shavings and then broken gear teeths,don't know which one broke first, if was any of the gear's teeth or the pinion's.but surely was a piece of broken teeth that put an end on it all when it got caught between the gear and pinion. I'd repair it but I no longer have a source for parts here as I mentioned before and the theatre's owner doesn't seem to want to have it repaired now that he has his "frankestein" running again and belts are cheaper than gears, not to mention, easier to change when they fail. And now that Mark mentioned about overlooked parts in a sound reproducer gearbox, I have one from one of my projectors that I'll open and take a look inside.it's in the need for other parts but until now I didn't pay attention to it's gearbox.Since I'm having all this "good luck" with sound reproducers my hair won't raise or fall out if I find anything wrong inside it Seemsat's about time for me to light some colored candles, burn some incences,open a book of black magics or start chanting the Om mani padme oooooommmmm! thing  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-08-2004 11:28 PM                     Luciano, The parts you need for the Simplex's are easy to obtain unless you are running on 50 hz power down there, and even then those ponions and gears may also be readily available. Ed Wolk has all of them in stock all the time. Mark  |  IP: Logged Luciano Brigite Master Film Handler Posts: 277 From: Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-09-2004 12:25 AM                     Power here,AFAIK, is 60Hz ,some places won't have 110/115/120 but only 220V (like the place where I serviced the subject of this topic) I told the owner that the reproducer I took off could be repaired with new gears and everything else but he doesn't seem to want to do it. the show there went ok and he thinks the projector now runs quieter and the sound seems better than it was before with the simplex reproducer. Going to another sound reproducer,are there gears still available for RCA reproducers?  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 05-09-2004 01:01 AM                    I think Mark's first backwards R3 / X-L setup was devised to fit a situation at a single-turned-triplex where a massive air duct physically blocked the use of his beloved but very long SH-1000.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-09-2004 08:46 AM                     Yea, That was a longtime ago in a galaxy far far away.....  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 05-09-2004 09:20 AM                     Gears for RCA soundheads available from Wolk, ICECO and India.  |  IP: Logged Luciano Brigite Master Film Handler Posts: 277 From: Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-09-2004 05:00 PM                     Hrmm.. that's not all that bad then.I still have to open the gearbox of my RCA reproducer and take a look inside.it already has a broken part elsewhere in it I need a replacement. now if the gears needs to go too,then it'll be better dump it and find another reproducer,but knowing how things are.. seems I'll end keeping it and finding a way to have it back in busines again (probably by dumping the gears and modifying it to belts.Saw that once and it worked ok, what didn't please me was one large toothed double pulley running in the open at the non operating side)all of it will depend on the co$t of such parts  |  IP: Logged

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