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Author Topic: Automation Feature Start Beep Andrew Shingleton Film Handler Posts: 63 From: Richmond, Victoria, Australia Registered: Feb 2004 posted 06-06-2004 04:27 AM                     Hi guys, We're currently using Panalogic CA2000 MK2 in all of our houses. At a previous cinema I worked at we had Pennywise CA100's, and there was an interesting modification made to them which caused them to emit a short sharp beep every 5 seconds after the show had gone to feature. The automation would continue to beep until the operator manually pressed a button on the automation unit. The purpose of this was to force the operator to be at each cinema at least some time after the main show started, rather than running the whole thing autopilot (ie: it was a "bad habit breaking" tool). If a manager was to walk through the projection room and heard one of the unit's beeping on a show which was more than a few minutes into feature, there'd be hell to pay. My question is whether there is a way of customising the Panalogic automation to do the same thing - either through a hardware modification (which I believe is how the CA100 was modified), or through clever programming of the segments and events. A logging mechanism would make the system even better - a report of how long it took the operator to check feature starts would be a great tool as it's effective even when managers aren't around. And as a point of discussion, what do people think of the merits and problems with an idea such as this. Obviously this sort of thing should technically not be needed in a perfect world, but as everyone is no doubt aware it's next to impossible to totally guarantee everyone will do their job properly absolutly all the time. I'd be very interested in opinions from you guys, especially if anyone's ever used or been involved in setting up a similar system. Thanks!  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-06-2004 04:35 AM                     I'll bet Panalogic can implement that feature. I've never heard of that one from Pennywise though, although if anyone out there is willing to bend over backwards setting up weird automation requests, it's Mark Justice and Peter Stefanos at Pennywise. (They probably think I'm nuts for all the things I have added to the CA21.) Personally that feature would drive me nuts, but then again I can imagine how such a feature would be VERY useful in a large multiplex booth ran by high schoolers with little experience (and/or brainpower). You should request that it be able to be toggled on/off via some sort of technician's setup menu just in case things change over time and it is decided that the beeping is not needed. If you want to add some cool features, see if they can add things such as a threading alarm. On my CA21s, a tech-settable number from 1-9 minutes will fire off a triple beep through the status panels and flash the screen that needs to be threaded. This way once the triple beeps are heard, it wakes the projectionist up from his nap/brain fart and gives him just enough time to get the machine threaded so the movie is never late. Try contacting Ray Derrick. I'm sure he can help you or get you to the person who can.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-06-2004 04:42 AM                        and of course make sure it can't be heard in the auditorium! carl  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-06-2004 04:48 AM                     Actually, if you really want to be evil to your projectionist to keep them on their toes, have Panalogic set things up so that it beeps every 5 seconds once the feature begins, and if the machine hasn't been checked on within 20 minutes of the beginning of the feature, have it execute a film break routine.  |  IP: Logged Michael Barry Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 584 From: Sydney, NSW, Australia Registered: Nov 1999 posted 06-06-2004 05:52 AM                     I worked for a certain company at one point that used CA21's with that same exact feature, and it drove me insane. This same company spoke to me about posting on Film-Tech, presumably because I might actually have learned something about 'film done right'. I brought it up during a meeting, but they wanted the feature kept on. Of course, it could be heard in the auditorium, and the last thing you need while trying to get a feature on the screen is another screen beeping at you to check it. You don't want to be interrupted at a potentially crucial moment just to 'check' a machine (which you won't have time to check properly anyway until you are done with the present machine!). I said that I should be checking my work because I'm a professional projectionist, NOT because some stupid beeping machine tells me to...it's called self-discipline, not something out of Fritz Lang's 'Metropolis'. I also pointed out that other cinemas I've worked at had no such and we managed just fine without it. As Brad said, maybe it's called for when you have school kids and/or braindead staff, but you have to ask yourself if such a device is deemed necessary, have you selected the best staff to begin with? I should add that the beeping not only started at the beginning of the feature(s), but also at the start of the film ads AND the start of the trailers! Can you imagine the pandemonium at a 12-screen at the start of each session? But again, as Brad said: Ray Derrick is your man.  |  IP: Logged Andrew Shingleton Film Handler Posts: 63 From: Richmond, Victoria, Australia Registered: Feb 2004 posted 06-06-2004 07:35 AM                     Actually now you mention it, I do remember being able to faintly hear the beeps in the auditorium in one of the smaller houses at the cinema where this feature was installed. Although you really had to be listening for it - the beeps weren't normal automation beeps, it's almost like they were half beeps which were cut off before they got too loud. You even had trouble hearing them in the projection room over the sound of the machines unless you were about five metres away or were used to listening out for them. I do know how much I hated the beeps when they were first installed, but they did make everyone get to each cinema at the start of feature (it was a 16 screen multiplex). Maybe a flashing led would be better, despite the fact that this would make it far more expensive to install. The other thing I was thinking was if there was some sort of colour coding system on a panamation display (which I've been trying to get for a long time now but due to circumstances I won't go in to it hasn't been approved yet). That way there's a central point where the projectionist can see which cinema needs to be checked first. I'd assume it would also make some kind of logging mechanism much easier to use. I assume Ray Derrick is from Panalogic? I'll try to track him down and maybe drop him an email to see what he thinks of the idea and whether it would be overly complicated to implement without too much hardware modification. Then it would just be a matter of convincing the money people it's a good idea (yay for that ).  |  IP: Logged Michael Barry Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 584 From: Sydney, NSW, Australia Registered: Nov 1999 posted 06-06-2004 11:30 AM                     Ray Derrick is the president of Panalogic, makers of the excellent Panalogic automation that you already own and the superlative Panastereo cinema sound processors. They are also the Australian distributors and support centre for DTS theatre equipment and the Australian distributors for FilmGuard. Mr. Derrick has posted on these forums before, so if you do a search for his posts, you can find him easily. As an aside, in my earlier post I forgot to mention that whenever sessions would be going in at 'that' cinema, I would always yell out, 'Fries are up!' whenever the automations started beeping. Not that working there was anything like working for McDonalds. Of course not. Do talk to the moneymen about this stuff by all means, but do try and sell them on the idea of FilmGuard. Your film presentations will be better than ever...just ask Ray! Just my opinion - skip the beeping automations and spend the money on FilmGuard instead. OK, I've said my piece!  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-06-2004 03:41 PM                     As far as additional noise by some stupid beeper in the booth to beep under normal operation, I have only one thing to say:  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 06-06-2004 04:47 PM                    You could turn the job into a night watchman sort of thing that the operator is required to visit each machine every so often and punch in. If you added a little digital readout just outside the port displaying a random number and made them punch this into a keypad you'd force them to actually look out the window once in a while!  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-06-2004 04:51 PM                     That's for sure...  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-06-2004 10:02 PM                        I'm with Paul. This just sounds annoying. Especially on Thursday nights when in the middle of trailer changes, makeup/breakdown, etc. Better to fix the real problem (crappy operators) than to try to mask it with workarounds like this.  |  IP: Logged Andrew Shingleton Film Handler Posts: 63 From: Richmond, Victoria, Australia Registered: Feb 2004 posted 06-06-2004 11:29 PM                     I'm giving up on the beeping idea, mainly because it would be heard in the auditorium but also because it would be an absolute pain to have to listen to. However I still like the idea of some sort of indication that a show has gone to feature - even if it's only purpose it to make it easier to check feature starts. The plan I'm moving towards is installing small lights in the roof (or somewhere where they won't be seen through the port windows) at each cinema. I'll hook these lights up to one of the spare auxiliary relays on the AS103 board of the automation. Then it's a simple matter of adding a command to the "start of feature" event to turn the light on, and then inserting an extra event after that with a manual trigger to turn the light off again. This way the operator must be at the cinema to manually step forward before the credits roll. Probably not perfect, but fairly simple to implement without major modifications. I do have one question for anyone that knows - what is the maximum load I can put through one of these relays? It's a low power relay, and from what I can see the manual only refers to the high power relay (which is rated at 5A 240Vac). I'd rather not fry the whole automation unit, but I'd prefer to use the low power relay as it has two sets of changeover contacts as opposed to one in the high power relay. I've run a test with a 1.5V AA battery and a torch bulb, and that works fine, but it doesn't really tell me much. Thanks again for all opinions.  |  IP: Logged

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