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Author Topic: Newsflash - Dolby EX and DTS-ES are the same thing! Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-30-2004 04:15 PM                     Really!!! No joke. They are the same thing. WOW! (This thread posted for the benefit of people who still think that ES is something different than EX. Guys, if a movie is listed as EX, then it *is* "ES" as well. It's just the dorky name that DTS gives EX tracks.)  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-30-2004 06:44 PM                     I suppose you can lock this thread now?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-30-2004 06:47 PM                     No, I'm waiting for someone to adamantly come on and tell me how ES encoding is somehow different.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 07-30-2004 06:49 PM                    It's on a CD not on the film  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-30-2004 07:03 PM                        Or you could say that EX is just the dorky name Dolby gives to DTS's Extended Surround tracks. Besides, was this ever disputed?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-30-2004 07:09 PM                     Not trying to pick on any one person here, but I see this all the time. link  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-30-2004 08:36 PM                     If you use Panastereo's you get Surround-SX. So am I to believe that is the same thing? Where will all of this end? Will Surround-EX work with cyan film? Does Surround-ES care if the film is cyan (or faded red for that matter)? What about "Circle Surround"? Since the DTS XD-10 could do a discrete BS channel(s)...I guess we might see Discrete Surround-ES Since they are the back surroud channels...why was there no truth in advertising...just call em Surround-BS Some clown will probably "discover" a four channel surround system and call their decoder "Super-Surround-EX" or some such nonsense. Steve  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-31-2004 06:40 PM                     "Surround BS" Bwahahahahahahah...... Now you've hit the nail on the head! Mark  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 07-31-2004 07:31 PM                    Steve, We're talking about sound formats used on the print. Just because Panastereo wants to decode the EX/ES matrix and call it something else, that's great. That doesn't change the format used on the print. Brad, I agree that EX and ES are from a technological standpoint identical, however they are competing formats, and they're licensed separately. And since someone like Spielberg, who has a hard on for DTS, COULD in theory license ES on the DTS track, and then mix the track down to 5.1 for the SRD crowd and screw them out of EX, I see no problem in stating both. If you want a sound format misunderstanding and redundancy issue to champion, how about joining me and condemning the folks who constantly type "SR/SRD." That is a CLEAR redundancy since it basically means "there is an SR track, and a Digital track with an SR backup track." But unfortunately too many people just accept that now, and I'm sure I'll get criticized for not knowing what I'm talking about. Fire away, folks... I'll just ignore you. I fear the day when AMCs way of notating the sound tracks becomes mainstream. In an email from the corporate office, they tell us all every week that movies are "A/SR/SRD..." But the bottom line is, I know they are the same, and yet they are different, and one does not necessarily imply the other, although usually they do at the moment. It is your site, though. So if you don't want me to correct DTS into DTS-ES when someone else has already corrected SRD into SRD-EX, then I won't do it. Your FITA forum won't be as complete and accurate as it probably should be, in my opinion, but again, it's your site, and your call. Cheers, Mark  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-31-2004 07:43 PM                     I said I was not picking on any one inparticular. You just happened to be the lastest example. And yes EX and EX is the same damn thing and NO there has not been a difference ever, nor should there ever be. What about people with SRD but coupled with an ES decoder, or the reverse? It's stupid and yes I do wish people would stop stating the blindly obvious. However noting EX is different than simply posting SRD. I do agree with you on the whole SR/SRD thing. That is moronic. Equally useless info is when someone makes a post after opening weekend on first run letting everyone know what trailers came in their cans or attached to the print. We have considered making it so that after the movie has opened the thread gets locked, but occasionally that forum becomes useful in repertory times for posting noted good or bad prints via print number. I'm surprised no one has noted "in color" yet.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 07-31-2004 07:56 PM                        But ES is indeed different! It uses a discreet (discrete?) rear surround! So their EX is discrete. It is easiest just to called it EXcrete. Oh wait. That's DVD. This is a film forum. Silly me.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 07-31-2004 08:01 PM                     Dolby•EX and DTS-ES have different logos. Well, at least DTS finally developed a logo a year or so after launching its competing format (after getting some suggestions to do so from some particular people). But the logos mean nothing! At least they don't mean anything to the folks making the newspaper stack ads. In browsing through the latest Gemini and Wagner Zip Change catalogs, there aren't any Dolby•EX or DTS-ES logos in there that one can put on a marquee. Of course, you could call some anal-rententive graphics guy like me who could make you some for a phat phiggidy price. Brad has the only 70mm sign I've been able to make though. With the effort in advertising these formats being absolute crap, there's little reason for commercial theaters to invest in the next big thing. Dolby•EX and DTS-ES have been failures in this regard in both the theatrical and home venues. No ad blitz to support it. Most home theater systems are still sold with 5.1 speaker packages in spite of most new receivers supporting the 6.1 formats. For the DTS XD-10 to get anywhere two things need to happen. First, someone like Universal Pictures needs to have a real, 10 channel discrete movie. And they need to promote the shit out of that fact, just like they promoted DTS with its launch for "Jurassic Park". You need new logos, new posters, and jeez-louise -a new freaking trailer! For now, the vast majority of people just treat all this stuff like it is the same old generic digital 5.1 thing. They don't understand it and there aren't any titles really showing off the advantages of the new stuff. [ 07-31-2004, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Bobby Henderson ]  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 07-31-2004 08:34 PM                    Oh, I know you weren't picking on me, and I don't take that stuff personally anyway. It didn't look like anyone else wanted to speak up though, so I figured I'd take a stab at it.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 07-31-2004 09:30 PM                    Why does it have to be licensed from DTS at all (except maybe use of the name)? Let's say you're mixing using Dolby's EX matrix equipment. You end up with a 6-track digital master. If you hand it over to DTS to encode and make disks are they going to care if the two surround channels represent matrixed info?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-31-2004 09:56 PM                     I think using the term "Brand X Surround Decoding" should cover just about all of them.... Mark  |  IP: Logged

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