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Author Topic: The Cookout- bad reel #3 John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-02-2004 05:27 PM                     I had something that I've never come across before- an incomplete reel. During makeup, I noted that the reel in question came to an abrupt end with normal image, then a lab splice, followed by four feet of exposed (clear) film stock. No regular tail. To make matters even more wierd, the stock for the reel was Agfa, and the stock after the splice was Kodak 2383 stock. There were no cue marks present, so that led me to suspect that I had an incomplete reel. I called John Pytlak and explained what I had encountered and asked for the phone numbers of Delux labs, which John was able to provide. The prints were made by Delux Toronto, and I talked to Herman Lorenzo at the lab. He explained that it was a technician's error at the break. He also assured me that this was confined to the print I had received, and not a widespread occurrance. Called TES and asked for a new reel #3. Interestingly, I was asked if we were going to play this print! Answer: NO!!! Just hope the new reel will arrive before the first show tomorrow (10:55AM EDT). Thanks to John Pytlak for his help. You were correct, John, in your assumption that there was an error involving only that particular reel.  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: Boulder Creek, CA. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 09-03-2004 03:06 AM                     If there's one thing I've learned it's that John Pytlak is generally a human relational database of everything you'd ever want to know about film stock. I noticed no problems with my print of Cookout however I do think it's odd that there's so much leader (about 3-4 feet) on the 4th reel heads of both the Technicolor prints I recieved today. What's up with that?  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 09-03-2004 11:05 AM                        If the lab is a member of the Association of Cinema and Video Laboratories, they are listed in the ACVL Directory: http://www.acvl.org/members.htm Distributors normally expect you to contact the film exchange (TES, ETS) if there is a problem with a reel. A few spare replacement reels are usually on hand for situations like this. You should always document any problems you find during inspection or pre-screening evaluation in writing immedidately to the distributor and film exchange, even if you decide the problem is not enough to request a replacement reel. Although the labs want to know about any problem reels, and can usually help diagnose the problem, normal protocol is that a request for replacement reels comes via the exchange/distributor.  |  IP: Logged Andrew Vanderhoek Film Handler Posts: 3 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 09-05-2004 08:29 PM                     I also received a print like this real #5 on Wicker Park was the similar for me. At the end of the real it had a splice and then half a frame followed with 2 inches of clear plastic. I had to call one of our other theaters to check if their print was the same way which it wasn't and I had them tell me what the last frame looked like so I would know if it was just missing the tail or if I was also missing a scene. I was missing a scene and reordered the fifth real. Luckily I had received the print the night before and not the morning of the showing so their was enough time to get a new print. But since I'm new at building and breaking I didn't know what to do at first, I was just baffled with how the print came. It ended up we were missing about 30 frames off of the end of the fifth real along with the tail.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-05-2004 08:51 PM                     Reel ID frames are available to the left. Wicker Park specifically is here.  |  IP: Logged Andrew Vanderhoek Film Handler Posts: 3 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 09-05-2004 10:26 PM                     Here is a picture of what our tail on reel #5 of Wicker Park looked like  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-07-2004 12:03 AM                     John Hendrickson: "Called TES and asked for a new reel #3. Interestingly, I was asked if we were going to play this print! Answer: NO!!!" Why is that "intersting"? It's part of the standard script. For any kind of damage report, they ask you if the reel is playable. This is useful information for them to know, and sure you can derive it from what you have described, but that's not always obvious for all kinds of damage. It helps to make sure that you and the person on the phone both have a good shared understanding of the damage extent. Redundancy is good! --jhawk  |  IP: Logged John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-07-2004 07:37 PM                     John Hawkinson wrote: "Why is that "intersting"? It's part of the standard script." Because, John, after explaining that I was dealing with less than a full reel of film, I felt that it was rather obvious that we would not play this print, no way, no how. It has also been my experience that if you say the print is "playable", you may wait a long time to get a replacement.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-09-2004 02:59 AM                        here's an interesting one i saw today. tae-guk-gi, reel 4. about 30 seconds in, the image fades to white over a few frames, then a lab splice, then the reel starts over from the beginning. i didn't actually handle this one, i saw it when watching the film at another theater. carl  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 09-09-2004 05:45 AM                        quote: Carl Martin tae-guk-gi, reel 4. about 30 seconds in, the image fades to white over a few frames, then a lab splice, then the reel starts over from the beginning. Unfortunately, another example of why pre-screenings are a good idea. Although this should also have been obvious during inspection on a rewind bench. I suspect some confusion managing "short ends" when using a bi-directional contact printer. Even if the reel after the splice is complete, the lab should be made aware of the problem.  |  IP: Logged Peter Mork Expert Film Handler Posts: 181 From: Newton, MA, USA Registered: Jun 2002 posted 09-09-2004 03:36 PM                     Yes, pre-screening would be nice, but seldom feasible for many people. My print of Hero came in last week with six minutes missing from the end of the first reel. A very important six minutes at that, as far as the exposition of the film goes. There had been cues added to the end of the reel, thus no reason to suspect there was a problem. We ran it that way all weekend and got some complaints. Finally the owner went to another theatre where it was playing and confirmed that the film was indeed incomplete. When he called Miramax on it, they had the gall to suggest it was our fault and in any case they had no replacement prints available. To date, we have not received a replacement reel. We did put up a sign informing ticket buyers that our print is missing a portion. Very frustrating.  |  IP: Logged

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