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Author Topic: Hey, me! I suck! Or: what would you have done differently? Dan Bouvier Film Handler Posts: 70 From: Sylvan Lake, Alberta, Canada Registered: Aug 2004 posted 09-06-2004 04:12 AM                     Not that it matters: Ballantyne PRO-35 Ballantyne Model VII soundhead Strong Super Lume-X lamphouse Strong 35-3/CSA platters General Sound Showman II automation QSC ISA 450 amps (3) Dolby CP55 Processor Dolby SRA5 Processor Component Engineering MS-100 monitor (It makes me feel like a big man to list all that) So it's the last show of the night (tonight) in screen 5, I've started it, everything's running fine, the rewind platter seems to be lagging behind a bit but it hasn't wrapped and isn't getting any worse. Not being just a projectionist, I get summoned downstairs to figure out what the hell error 151 is on our ATM. And eventually someone comes out to tell us that the picture is shaking around. I run upstairs, figuring the gate is loose or something, but when I hear the noise the poor projector is making I start running FAST. And there I have it, a 3-inch wrap, film ALL over the floor, and the projector pulling film straight from the platter into the gate (bypassing any other rollers). What happened was that the PAYOUT platter finally wrapped, which set off the failsafe at the top of the platter. This turned off the platters, but not the projector. So now the projector is yanking film through the wrap and dumping it onto the floor (because the rewind platter has stopped). We have a failsafe roller in the projector that's supposed to stop everything if it stops spinning (a manual, anyone?) but it doesn't work. What I did: Cut the film A) between the wrap and the rest of the film on the rewind platter and B) between the wrap and the pile on the floor. Then I got the rest of the film re-threaded and back on screen. Then I wound the pile of film off the floor. Is there any way I could have handled this better? I know, ideally I would have been up there watching the platter the whole time, but in addition to being projectionist I'm also the manager/handyman/computer tech. Any suggestions from anyone are welcome. I had it back on screen in under 10 minutes - I know that's long but it's been a long day (I started at noon) and it took a while for my brain to spin up. Tomorrow I'll put the parts back together (the show runs at 9:40 only) but tonight I had to finish the cash out and whatnot. I covered the mess with a platter cover because we have a tech guy coming in tonight and I'd be embarassed if he saw how I screwed up that print. Of course if he reads this it won't matter. Anyway, I look forward to any suggestions for the future, aside from staying in the booth full-time - I wish I could. Thanks! (Edited: Payout platter, you're right. I was tired.) [ 09-06-2004, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Dan Bouvier ]  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-06-2004 09:57 AM                     First it was the payout platter not the rewind that wrapped I always wire the wrap detector in serries with the projectors film break sensor in your case probably you have one of the old cinemation roller sensors They need to be cleaned to work properly  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 09-06-2004 10:04 AM                    It sounds like you did the best that could be done under the circumstances. A properly operating failsafe on the takeup side which will shut down the projector (via the automation so an alarm can be sounded, house lights brought up, etc.) is normally considered the bare minimum necessary to leave a booth unattended. In this age of very strong, sometimes clingy, polyester-base film a falesafe on the feed side is also highly recommended but I'm not sure what point there is to one that stops the platter but not the show. Both should be there, working, and wired to shut down the show. Getting that taken care of is probably more critical than analyzing how you could have done better with that particular emergency. Far better to prevent a recurrence.  |  IP: Logged Bill Langfield Master Film Handler Posts: 280 From: Prospect, NSW, Australia Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-06-2004 02:45 PM                        What STEVE said. (basically any failsafe tripped should FIRSTLY tell the projector to stop) Dan you did GOOD enough! Now I'll talk about you in the 3rd person. The poor kid did what he could with the equitment he had to work with. He also seems to be doing what he can with the company he's working with. I didn't know HOYTS had made it's way into Canada. Dan, Now talking to in the 1st person. When that 'tech' came in you should have shown him them the mess on the floor, and told him to re-wire the platter microswiches to the projector (or automation input) on/off relay correctly. I've also worked for a 'company' that expects you to do EVERYTHING, then gets the shits when things screw up, because you were doing the job of 4-5 people and not getting a cent extra.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 09-06-2004 05:29 PM                        People like to wire platter failsafes so that they don't shut down the projector (thus depending on the projector takeup failsafe to shut down the projector) so that the projector doesn't get shutdown if the platter failsafe trips for only a second or two. It's most common on Strong platters with sensitive failsafe's that trip if there is any amount of bounce on payout caused by people using masking tape (residue) on their trailers/etc. It's also common in booths with high turn over where there are idiots tripping over the takeup feed and hitting their heads on the payout feed. It doesn't make it right, but that's why it's done. That and it doesn't require you to run a wire across the booth floor, or to the ceiling, if someone didn't plan ahead and put wire in the floor.  |  IP: Logged Dan Bouvier Film Handler Posts: 70 From: Sylvan Lake, Alberta, Canada Registered: Aug 2004 posted 09-06-2004 06:37 PM                     Thanks for the input guys. What's HOYTS?  |  IP: Logged Andrew Jefferson Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Brisbane, QLD, Australia Registered: Jul 2004 posted 09-07-2004 08:27 AM                     HOYTS Hehehe, Mainly an Australian theatre chain, but also in New Zealand, the US and parts of Europe if your lucky. Hoyts (AUS) website. If you've worked for a more caring chain eg.Greater Union Cinemas you'll understand Bill's dislike for them. They go into the "Nothing done right" category! Sorry. [ 12-21-2006, 04:27 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Jefferson ]  |  IP: Logged Paul Trimboli Master Film Handler Posts: 274 From: Perth Western Australia Registered: Dec 2002 posted 09-07-2004 08:47 AM                     Hey now come on Bill and Andrew, come over to Perth and work for Regent! Then you will know what bad is all about. The dodgy brothers run that company! Greater Union is good, seems to be film done right! Hoyts from the people I know who worked for them have bad things to say about them. I have been into the Bio Box of the ones in town here in Perth, lets me just say they use Mr Sheen to stop print shedding! That is not a joke!  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 09-07-2004 03:59 PM                        Kodak has long recommended a tension-sensing failsafe on the film FEED when using polyester prints. The failsafe should be connected to shut down BOTH the platter and projector at the same time for quick reaction to a film jam. Modern failsafe designs (with a film "trolley" or "mini-elevator", and some dampening of the roller detecting the tension buildup) should be fairly insensitive to premature shutdown with normal tension variations. The tension detection level should be at about 16 ounces of film tension (per SMPTE Recommended Practice RP106), and certainly never allow the tension to exceed about 5 pounds. Without a tension-sensing failsafe, tensions will build to greater than 50 pounds without the film breaking or perforations tearing out, likely causing equipment damage if there is a jam.  |  IP: Logged System Notices Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi Posts: 215 Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-17-2006 06:51 PM                 It has been 831 days since the last post.  |  IP: Logged Andrew McCrea Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 645 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Nov 2000 posted 12-17-2006 06:51 PM                        So, how come a lot of automations use failsafes on the cue detector below the projector? What about a detector at the bottom of the yo-yo, so that if it just fell and sat at the bottom, it would activate a fail?  |  IP: Logged Blaine Young Master Film Handler Posts: 477 From: Kirkland, WA, USA Registered: Sep 2006 posted 12-17-2006 08:01 PM                     With Polyester film, a fail safe does little more than warn you if you've threaded the fail safe incorrectly. The only actual thing it does is act as a cue detector. Since the cutover to polyester, I've not had a single occurrence where the film as actually broken. The film isn't strong enough to pull the platter across the floor, but it will create all kinds of havoc with rollers and damage the hell out of any number of feet of film. I almost long for the days when the film actually broke. Of course, a failsafe that actually detects film motion is better, but as Andrew pointed out, I've seen hundreds of feet of film collect under the projector head with the platter completely dis-engaged, and the fail safe is blissfully ignorant. Not like the days of the old physical roller failsafe which actually *required* film tension to stay activated.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-17-2006 08:05 PM                     Blaine I have seen many splices come apart that only the projector sensor would have detected It is a three fold problem and only a wrap detector coupled to a motion and break detector will work And I have seen estar stock split  |  IP: Logged Darren Powell Film Handler Posts: 15 From: Auckland, New Zealand Registered: Jul 2006 posted 12-21-2006 04:07 AM                     god dont even start me with the strong platters, they are the worst platters i have ever used ! always giving me platter wraps :S  |  IP: Logged Marc Jensen Film Handler Posts: 20 From: Auckland, New Zealand Registered: Jan 2006 posted 12-21-2006 09:07 AM                     Actually, get Darren started about his platters. I hear that his location has even had to resort to using make up tables for platter speed control. Anyway, reading Blaine's and Gordon's posts I'm reminded of a time where I started a movie (Seed of Chucky) and had to shoot down to the office for a couple of minutes during the trailers. Upon my return I found a few metres of film on the floor in front of the projector and another piece extending back from the take up platter, the two ends having parted company courtesy of a... I'll hesitantly refer to it as a "splice". Basically the projectionist had spliced two trailers together without actually using any splicing tape and this abomination had somehow held together on the strength of our trailer-to-trailer labeling system for 14 shows. So on that movie's 15th pass the take up tension from projector to plater had finally torn the join and the failsafe systems did extremely well in mitigating the situation for yours truely to sort out. Two ends of film to link up with the projector already stopped and waiting beats having to figure out chronic spaghettification hands down. I'm using Kinoton FP30Ds hooked up to Kinoton platters throughout the room. A trip roller on a vertical travel on the platter tree covers payout tension emergencies and an optical failsafe mounted on the projector covers loss of tension on the return path. These failsafe systems have saved my arse countless times.  |  IP: Logged

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