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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » XD10 dts hard drive capacity (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: XD10 dts hard drive capacity
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 09-11-2004 08:43 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
It was my understanding that the XD10 units would be shipping with a 40 gig hard drive (per my chat with the dts reps at ShoWest 2003). With that capacity, the unit could store approximately 30 features, give or take.

The gentleman at ShoWest also told me that I could install a larger hard drive in it to be able to store more features (my example was a 120 gig drive being able to store about 90 features), but he did warn that "99" was the official limit that the machine could handle due to the two digit software, or something to that effect.

So in looking at a recent XD10, I see it came "stock" with a 120 gig hard drive! However there is no mention in the manual or anywhere about it being able to store more than approximately 30 features. Is there any reason why this unit "as is" cannot handle 60-70-80 features before it begins deleting the oldest ones? I'm curious to know what the most features anyone has stored on their XD10 is, and whether they got a 40 gig hard drive in it or one of the 120 gigs.

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

- posted 09-11-2004 09:41 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Miller
but he did warn that "99" was the official limit that the machine could handle due to the two digit software, or something to that effect.
If that's true, they're a bunch of retards that should beaten with the case of an IBM 8086 based computer. I hope they fall victim to the year 2038 'bug'.

Possible reasons why you might not be able to store more than 30 features:

  • Disk usage could be limited to leave room for efficient defragmentation.
  • Disk space could be saved for every trailer known to man.
  • A limit on the number of features could be in place so that you can pay them to upgrade the limit in the future.

In all likelihood, though, they probably found it cheaper to install 120GB drives than the smaller drives and you'll be able to store as many features as possible on the drive.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 09-11-2004 09:53 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,
One reason for the larger drive is that losless DTS takes a ton more disk space.... there is no data compression. DTS wants all units sold to be able to do all the different processes the XD-10 is capable of just by loading the needed software for that particuluar process. I wouldn't be surprised if all the XD's are being shipped that way now.

One would think that film storage would only be limited by the size of the drive but that is something that only DTS could probably really answer. Please let us know if you find out.

Mark

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 09-11-2004 11:46 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, your theory about the lossless formats make perfect sense. Surely dts did not put a 30 feature limit on the software. If so, that would be really stupid. After all, there are 30 plexes that will play a movie in a small house a couple of weeks before it's main release, then a few months later that movie will end up back in that same small house...but it could've been deleted by then!

If no one here has a definitive answer, I may sit down and load up feature disc after feature disc until I find the maximum. [Big Grin]

Also, it was posted on this forum about a year and a half ago that 8 channel dts releases would be out by summer 2003. Have any actually been made?

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

- posted 09-12-2004 01:07 AM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Miller
Surely dts did not put a 30 feature limit on the software. If so, that would be really stupid.
Not unlike having a 99 feature limit because of a "two digit issue".

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
One reason for the larger drive is that losless DTS takes a ton more disk space.... there is no data compression. DTS wants all units sold to be able to do all the different processes the XD-10 is capable of just by loading the needed software for that particuluar process.
Were they ever sold with 40GB drives? It's not like DTS just came up with their lossless format and 120GB drives have been common and cheap for years, well before even the announcement of the XD-10.

quote: Brad Miller
Also, it was posted on this forum about a year and a half ago that 8 channel dts releases would be out by summer 2003. Have any actually been made?
Also not unlike the annoucement that there would be new DTS trailers out by the summer of 2003.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 09-12-2004 01:49 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The prototype I saw at ShoWest had a 40 gig drive in it, but then again that WAS a prototype.

Point taken on the 8 channel. <sigh> [Roll Eyes]

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

- posted 09-12-2004 01:52 AM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Were there any 8 channel releases this summer period? If film makers don't do an 8 channel mix then DTS can't very well release 8 channel disks.

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Alan Haigh
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Watford, UK
Registered: Jul 2003

- posted 09-12-2004 05:47 AM      Profile for Alan Haigh     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Terminator 3 and Spiderman 2.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 09-12-2004 09:39 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Most of the early XD-10's we installed all had 40 gig drives. when I did the lossless install with the people from DTS a couple of months ago they mentioned that they might just go to the larger drives on all the new units in the future... there isn't much cost difference on the drives.....

DTS could have offered 8 channel disks for those two films... I had that from the mouth of a dts exec. But there are no 8 channel processors with ana extra input out there cept the CP-200 and thats one of the main reasons for DTS to market the the new stand alone processor..... I can'think of an XD-10 in this part of the country that is set up on an 8 channel capable processor. There is only one CP-200 out here that is 8 channel capable and that entire system is being re-installed in St. George in November. So it wouldn't have been worth the studios going through the trouble to make 8 chan disks for just a handful of locations that might have been able to play them back. I think with the XD-10 and new DTS processor that will indeed change and it may also cause Sony to fade from the scene faster than ever.
Btw: It takes about 8 hours to load a 1 hour lossless play disk into the XD-10 but DTS is planning on software revisions to drastically shorten that load time.

Mark

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 09-12-2004 11:03 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark,

Are the lossless tracks available for normal Hollywood product?

Roughly how much space on the drive does a 2 hour movie lossless take up?

Seems to me dts could've hand burned the few 8 channel discs needed for those releases this year to help jump-start their format and push the XD10. There are plenty of CP200s in high end theaters (8 channel capable).

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 09-12-2004 12:35 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The AFI/Silver is 8-channel capable in two theatres.

Here is an oddity though...when DTS releases a "Todd-AO" mix one has to repatch the channels...even on XD-10s. They still seem to encode the tracks such that Ls and Rs give way to LC and RC with the S/W track giving way to the MS channel...my only reasoning is for compatibility with DTS-6DSV units.

At Colonial Williamsburg where the main film is a Todd-AO mix and has only ever had XD-10 players...DTS still used Ls and Rs for LC and RC.

Norm had mentioned at one of the shows that Panastereo was planning on a two-channel add-on box to bring 8-channels to various processors (the CSP-1200 for instance) since all it would need to do would be to follow the fader of the main processor.

The CP650 has been showing Le and Re channels now since a couple of firmware revisions....via the digital inputs on the CP650 and the digital outuputs on the XD-10 one should be able to do an 8-channel system with a CP650 and XD-10 combination too.

Give me 5-screen channels any day over Surround-Suspect.

Steve

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Ron Yost
Master Film Handler

Posts: 344
From: Paso Robles, CA
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted 09-12-2004 02:56 PM      Profile for Ron Yost   Email Ron Yost   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, does this mean DTS will be 'dual inventory' soon?? Lossless discs (about 5 or 6 CD's per feature??) for those with XD10's, and 'regular' compressed DTS soundtracks for those with older units??? Or are older unit owners simply going to be s.o.l. soon, unless they buy an XD10?? Maybe there will be a 'crossover' period, at the end of which DTS will distribute nothing but uncompressed tracks??

Also, if they're going lossless, why don't they distribute the uncompressed tracks on DVD?? Sure be a lot less discs to swap loading an XD10, wouldn't it?? Plus fewer distribution problems .. less to make and keep track of.

I'm probably missing something, aside from the probable fact that I'll bet the readers in an XD10 are only CD readers. [Big Grin]

Ron Yost

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 09-12-2004 03:08 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bzzzt...the disc drives in the XD-10 are DVD readers.

Steve

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Ron Yost
Master Film Handler

Posts: 344
From: Paso Robles, CA
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted 09-12-2004 03:24 PM      Profile for Ron Yost   Email Ron Yost   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah HA! Thank you, Steve. [Big Grin]

Ron Yost

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 09-12-2004 06:29 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well the XD-10 can of course do 8 channel the way it comes out of the box however none of the studios got requests for 8 chan DTS disks and all it would take is a large enough amount of requests to make that happen. Lossless requires a software change(or addition). I doubt that there is a system in the country cept for some Large Format systems that have the dynamic range capability to playback what can be put on a lossless disk. Even for the average well designed theatre it could mean doubling or tripling available audio power and then could the speakers take it for long.......? For that matter could the average theatre building withstand the enormous low frequqncy output and could the customers endure it on a regular basis.....? I don't think so and I feel that you'll generally only be seeing it used on special film events. Although i was told by DTS that it certainly IS possible to do lossless for regular feature production.... I wouold say that it is the system that is already here now for the future.

Mark

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