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Author Topic: Need help with automation Dan Bouvier Film Handler Posts: 70 From: Sylvan Lake, Alberta, Canada Registered: Aug 2004 posted 09-13-2004 03:04 PM                     We have a General Sound Showman II automation panel. I have no idea how old it is, I don't have any manuals for it either. Anywho, it's set up to dim the lights right when you start the movie, and then there's a cue at the credits to raise the house lights, and a cue 55' from the end of the last tail to raise the curtain lights and shut the projector/sound off. We use this in 4 houses with no problems. But in the fifth house, about 1 in every 20 shows, when the first cue goes though (at the credits), everything just dies. The sound stays in SR, but the projector stops, and the lights stay down. Then the patrons have to fumble around in the dark to find their way out, and we only know something went wrong if someone tells us that the movie shut off, or we go to thread up and notice 10 minutes of film still on the rewind platter. Does anyone have any idea what's going on?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-13-2004 06:44 PM                     FILM-TECH TO GORD.... COME IN GORD.... OVER.....  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 09-13-2004 10:16 PM                        I think Gordon is teaching at the Entertainment Equipment Corporation "CineFEST 2004" Seminars in Buffalo NY this week.  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 759 From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Registered: Nov 1999 posted 09-14-2004 12:09 AM                     Check your programming pins with an ohm-meter. They should all read as diodes (coductivity in one direction). If you find a shorted one, replace it.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 09-14-2004 11:38 AM                        quote: John Pytlak I think Gordon is teaching at the Entertainment Equipment Corporation "CineFEST 2004" Seminars in Buffalo NY this week. In that case, you can reach him around the clock in "Mulligan's Brick Bar" which I found in Buffalo when I was there last year.  |  IP: Logged Dan Bouvier Film Handler Posts: 70 From: Sylvan Lake, Alberta, Canada Registered: Aug 2004 posted 09-14-2004 06:17 PM                     quote: Rick Long Check your programming pins with an ohm-meter. They should all read as diodes (coductivity in one direction). If you find a shorted one, replace it. Checked and re-checked, and they all seem to be working in one direction only. The multimeter was set to 2M Ohm, which I assume means milli-ohms. Should it be set to anything different? Is there anything else I can check?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-14-2004 07:48 PM                     What I want to know is are there any buffalos in Buffalo? If not then why is it called Buffalo? Mark  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jr Expert Film Handler Posts: 211 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-14-2004 08:50 PM                     Check and see if there is a 2 ohm 5 watt resistor in series with the timer motor. Without this resistor, some of them would actually go backwards when triggered.(Not sure if it was a different supplier issue or what- some needed it, some didn't) The cue triggers the timer, and at the end of the cycle it steps to the next line. What happens if the timer goes backward? It steps first, completely ignoring your house up pin, and then doing everything on your stop line, but in the reverse order. Something to check anyway.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 09-14-2004 08:51 PM                        I didn't see any when I was there. But then Gordon and I spent most of our free time in that bar. Somebody told me there used to be many buffalos, but they killed and ate them all until there were none left. That's probably why they had to start eating chicken wings. Yes, that makes sense. Dan - the capital M stands for Mega. 2 Mega Ohm is two million.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-17-2004 10:31 PM                     Does the timer light come on when the foil goes by If so look and find which cue bus it eh one that the function you want is connected to and then replace the R10 relay for that function  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 759 From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Registered: Nov 1999 posted 09-17-2004 11:35 PM                     The strangest thing with this problem is its intermittency. If it were a constant mistake (such as a shorted diode or an incorrect relay) one would expect the fault to happen more than one out of twenty times. Here is a quick way to find out which relay does what. Inside the main automation panel, there is a circuit board of relays. The majority of the relays are located in a rectangular configuration of 5 high by 4 wide. These relays are R-10 types. These relays are numbered by column (vertical) groups, A B C and D and by row (horizontal) groups 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5, The upper left relay is A-1. The lower right relay is D 5. (A relay in the second column, third relay down would be B-3.) There are 20 functions that you can select, by placing a diode in the appropriate hole. Each of these "holes" drives a relay from A-1 (Function line 1 (usually projector lamp start) to D-5 the last function line (usually self-pulse). So find out which "hole" raises the lights at the start of the credits. . Lets say, for example, 16. Then work out which relay controls that function (In this example, hole 16 feeds D-1). Try subbing D-1 (or whatever relay drives your lights up) with another relay to see if that clears the house-light problem. Check the relay, these should all be 24 Volt DC R10 types. Good Luck.  |  IP: Logged Dan Bouvier Film Handler Posts: 70 From: Sylvan Lake, Alberta, Canada Registered: Aug 2004 posted 09-18-2004 12:17 AM                     Thanks for the help, guys... I'm going to a Beastie Boys concert in the morning so I'll try your ideas out when I get back on Wednesday. I've only ever been at the projector once when the automation screwed up, and if I remember correctly the timer light DID come on. Keep in mind, though, that it's not just one function that's not working (it's not just that the house lights aren't coming up). The second program is set to bring up the house lights; the third program stops the projector, closes the changeover, raises the house and curtain lights, and sets the sound back to non-sync. But when that first cue goes through, the projector stops and that's it. No non-sync, no lights, nothing. We do have 4 or 5 spare relays sitting in a box in a back room, I'll try swapping the one that sets the house lights up and cross my fingers from there. Thanks again! Dan  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 759 From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Registered: Nov 1999 posted 09-18-2004 05:38 PM                     Another type of peg-board automation, Cinemation Mk. IV's were installed at a cinema in Eastern Ontario, some years ago. The electrician failed to provide protection against small metal pieces, from holes he drilled in the main cabinet, falling into the programming board. For years after that, "sneak cues" would, now and then, cause strange things to happen to the performance.  |  IP: Logged Dan Bouvier Film Handler Posts: 70 From: Sylvan Lake, Alberta, Canada Registered: Aug 2004 posted 09-23-2004 02:08 PM                     ...turns out all the spare relays are at my boss's other theatre. 1. Is there any way to test the existing ones, with a multimeter or something? 2. If there's a peg-hole that has no function assigned to it, can it steal its relay and use it to replace the iffy one? Or will a missing relay cause the automation to not work? 3. Does anyone have a manual for the Showman II? If they could put it up here that would be sweet. Thanks again. Dan  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-23-2004 10:46 PM                     If the function line is unused then take the relay' I have the manual but will not be back to the shop for a long time as this install is bogged down  |  IP: Logged

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