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Author Topic: Kelmar Series IV Automation cam timer sticking Stephen Frazza Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Nutley, NJ, USA Registered: Mar 2004 posted 11-07-2004 02:18 AM                        I have a Kelmar Series IV Automation that's cam timer is getting stuck. It will pick up and see the signals from the cue detector but ignores them because the timer(it's red and plastic) hasn't fully finished it's rotation.All the lifts and drops happen at the right time ,I took it off and rotated it by hand. and they match the manual but it is getting stuck or stopping and not finishing its cycle, and it ignores the lights up and end of show cues when its stuck. I'm thinking it might be the motor attached to it but i'm not sure. I can't see any thing else happening that would cause this So I was hoping someone might have some experience with this problem or any other thoughts on what I could look at.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 11-07-2004 10:38 AM                    Where does it get stuck? In general on cam timer automations there should be two dwell periods where the motor is stopped. One is the between shows and one is during the show. One of the cams is responsible for powering the motor so that when push of the start button (or an end cue) starts it moving it will continue to turn until it gets to the next dwell period. If the cam assembly is stopping some place other than these two dwell periods you will need to test to see if it is receiving power in which case the motor could have failed, the internal gears jammed or something is stuck amidst the cam assembly. If it's not getting power then you need to check that cam & switch that is there to power it. If it is rotating properly and stopping only as it should (where the cam that powers it has the notches) then there is some other issue other than what you have described. These comments are about purely mechanical cam timer automations in general; someone else can address yours more specifically.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 11-07-2004 12:21 PM                       Here's the problem. The #1 and/or #2 microswitch (nearest the motor) is/are bad. The #1 switch is the one that maintains power to the cam motor (later in the cycle), and it stops the device on the mark at the end of the rotation. The #2 switch (and this is the one that gets most people) is the hold circuit switch. This can make the motor stop prematurely by breaking the start circuit before the #1 switch has a chance to "take over". I've found that 90% of the time, however, it's the #2 switch. But it's just as well to change them both, since the unit has to be disassembled to get to them. A good indication of #2 switch failure is the projector and lamp will start, but the c/o never opens... EDIT: I'm questioning my memory, so check the schematic to verify that #2 is the hold circuit switch and not #3 instead... sorry, can't remember for sure - I'm getting to be a few years out of the biz now.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-07-2004 05:24 PM                     quote: Steve Kraus In general on cam timer automations there should be two dwell periods where the motor is stopped. Definately not true on all automations.... even of the same manufacturer. This sort of function all depends on the model you have... in fact the majority of cam timers make a full 360 degrees then shut off with each activation in 30 seconds. Tim is right about the motor run switch possibly being bad and the best way to tell of its that is to hold the start buttom down and watch the cam timer run. If it runs then stops randomly while the button is held down then the motor is bad..... If you hold it down for 2 seconds to get the motor going and then release the start switch and the motor stops then the motor run switch os bad. Consult your model numbers manual or trace the wires back from switch 1 or 2 to find the right one and then replace it. Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Stephen Frazza Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Nutley, NJ, USA Registered: Mar 2004 posted 11-11-2004 01:02 AM                        Well I took it out and took it apart. I tested the microswitches with a multimeter and the # 2 is shot. So Tim was right. I looked in Grainger's catalog and i don't think they have this microswitch. So any suggestions as to where as i could pick this up. I searched for it and i could order it online but i was hopeing for somewhere i could just go pick it up at. Thanks guys.  |  IP: Logged System Notices Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi Posts: 215 Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-12-2006 05:51 PM                 It has been 761 days since the last post.  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 12-12-2006 05:51 PM                    I have the same issue with a Kelmar Series IV automation. I pulled the automation out, but didnt take the cam out. It sounds like the same problem, so I was wondering, before I take the cam out, where is the motor run switch located? I can't seem to find really good documentation on it and I don't even know what the switch looks like. Thanks!  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-12-2006 06:32 PM                       The number 1 microswitch is nearest the cam timer motor. Although, as noted above, the number 2 switch (the hold circuit) is often the culprit.  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 12-12-2006 06:52 PM                    It sounds like the #2 switch. If you hold in the start button, the sound switches, the changeover opens etc...if you just hit the start button, the projector starts, but the cam doesnt move. Where would the #2 switch be? And what exactly am I looking for? Im not real good at reading schematics, but if it is listed there, perhaps I could find it. Like I said, I never removed the cam, so if the switch is hidden under the cam or somewhere unseen, I'll have to look for the switch the day I goto repair it. I assume its a solder job?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-12-2006 09:05 PM                     Yuuuuuup! You definately have a bad motor run microswitch. Very common problem with those units. The micros that are made today are just not near the quality they were in the old Xetron units. Those micros last a very long time. Today you're lucky to get 5 years. Careful there takin that thingy apart. Don't get the cams mixed up and be sure not to accidentally re-adjust the cams and screw up the timming. The wires to that switch should be part of a nylon plug that just pulls off. Makes it real easy to repair. Number the plugs so you get em back on the correct switches. Check your local electrical supply that stocks Microswitch Brand(made in Fleaport, IL and they will probably have the switch U need. Mark  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 12-12-2006 10:00 PM                    Well, im a little confused. There are like 6 nylon plugs that plug into the cam, and one going from the motor to the circuit board. I thought there were only 2 switches...since I have 6 (or so) plugs, are there more? The plugs look like they plug into the cam (I only have a front view at this time since I didnt remove it. From the discussion in this topic, I assumed there were 2 switches. Sorry to sound so stupid, but like I said, I havent taken it apart yet simply because I dont have the replacement switch, so I didnt wanna waste the time. I will have order the switch from our distributor since I will need to install it right away and wont have time to go shopping...besides, I dont even know what kind of switch it is. I know I can replace it...not a problem, but finding it is my worry right now. Thanks for the tips on the plugs..I'll number them before I remove them.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 12-12-2006 10:34 PM                        Your dealer can get this quickly. We stock them by the hundreds. Louis  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 12-12-2006 11:02 PM                    Do you have a photo of what one looks like? I just would like to know what I'm looking for.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-13-2006 06:05 AM                       Frank, we're only talking about the switches that control the rotation of the cam timer motor, since that is the problem. Just call Louis and he will send you what you need. The cam timer unit consists of about 6 or 8 microswitches. The plugs you see in a nice, neat row down the length of the unit are the actual switch connections. Maybe needless to say, but they all have to go back on in the right order. The switches are counted from the motor out. #1 is next to the motor, as mentioned above. #2 is next to #1, and so on. If you have to hold the start button for a few seconds to get the motor to run by itself, then the #2 switch is likely bad. If the motor does start for a moment when you press the start button, but shortly stops, then it is the #1 switch. Regardless, it is always best to just replace both of these switches, while you have the unit apart. Note that dis-assembling a cam timer is not for the faint of heart; there are lots of little pieces and they all have to go back together in exactly the right order. It takes a measure of finesse. I clear off a large space on a table, to give myself plenty of room to work and stay organized, and get all the new replacement switches together. Start by removing the nuts and the rods that hold the timer together. Begin sliding the cam and switch assemblies apart and set them aside on the table in sequential order. Do not get lost! To keep the whole shooting match from collapsing in your hands, though, I only slide the rods out a little at a time, so I only remove one switch/cam section at a time (or, just start on the end closest to the switch you need to replace, and keep the remaining sections together on the rods). Once you get the first section off, you will see how the switches are mounted. They just lie in place, really. Pick a time to do this when you can finish the task at one sitting, without being called away in the middle of the work. Since you have not done this before, I would allot at least an hour, to an hour and a half -- including removal and reinstallation in the automation.  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 12-13-2006 09:41 AM                    Ugh. I didn't know I have to actually take the cam apart to get to each switch. I will replace switch 1 and 2 just to be safe. I appreciate the detailed replacement instructions. Anything else I should be careful of? I want to make sure it goes together ok. thanks again!  |  IP: Logged

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