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Author Topic: A couple Q's about Strong Platters Chase Hanson Expert Film Handler Posts: 172 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 11-17-2004 03:55 AM                     *I dont know whether these are SCDC, Phase Control or Microswitch, I do know that each deck has a two position toggle switch, payout and makeup* 1. Do the Brains have a memory buffer in the payout reader, or something that would cause the platter to spin at a speed that would normally be faster than would be dictated by the payout control arm? 2.Is there a way to adjust the rate at which the take up variac takes up tension? We have quite a few units that take up tension so fast (when threading) that it just slams into the upper bar and completely disjoints the lower magazine, unless you physically hold the platter for about a minute or so.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-17-2004 10:58 AM                     quote: Chase Hanson 2.Is there a way to adjust the rate at which the take up variac takes up tension? We have quite a few units that take up tension so fast (when threading) that it just slams into the upper bar and completely disjoints the lower magazine, unless you physically hold the platter for about a minute or so. Do you have the motors disengaged from the platter when you thread? You should leave them disengaged while threading until you are almost completely done. Then you should push the free-wheeling platter by hand until the takeup elevator ("Yo-Yo") is all the way at the top and the motor on the takeup platter stops running. THEN you re-engage the motor on the takeup platter. If this isn't your problem, then you might have some timing and speed control issues. There is a "zero speed" adjustment in the variac box at the bottom of the platter that determines how high the Yo-Yo must be before the motor(s) stop running. There are also some timing adjustments you can make to the platters to ensure they are all running at or near the same speed. At first thought, however, it sounds to me like you're "slamming" your platters when you thread. It's a common thing to happen on Strong/Potts platters if you aren't careful. The instruction manual tells you how to make the above adjustments. It also tells you the correct threading procedure to prevent "slamming". Check out the manual. If you don't have one you can download it from this site. (Then print it out and put a copy in the bathroom! ) [ 11-17-2004, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: Randy Stankey ]  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-17-2004 11:06 AM                     ***** Get a manual! ***** Well, there's a big difference between the DMC/SCDC units and the microswitch/phase control ones. If the on/off switch and fuses are on the TOP of the power supply box, it's a microswitch/phase control unit with a variac inside. Those switches and fuses on the side (or back or front, whatever way you look at it) of the power supply box means DMC/SCDC with no variac. The payout/makeup switch only means you have the AP frame, there's a model with selector switches for OFF-PAYOUT-REWIND-MAKEUP as well (only for the variac kind). Regardless, the tension arm pullup is maybe sort-of adjustable. With the variac power supply you adjust the position of the powerstat relative to the tension dancer position - the powerstat should be just a hair back from the fully off stop when the dancer arm is at its highest point. These will usually slam up to the top stop if the platter isn't held when pulling in slack. The DMC and SCDC models have no powerstat. The dancer should creep up slowly to about 3/4 up with these types. There's an optical sensor/drive PCB and a snail card in the power supply. These are more tricky to adjust and you must get the manual to attempt the adjustment. The DMC motor controls are susceptible to miscalibration; you need a special cable, a computer, and a program from Strong to recalibrate the sensor/control electronics. Don't mess with it if it's a DMC and you don't have the needed recalibration kit! The SCDC model is self calibrating. As for the payout - the variac models can only pay out a little bit faster than the rewind deck is turning. The variac voltage drives the rewind deck motor through a low value resistor. The payout motor is fed the same voltage without the resistor - controlled by either the microswitch or the phase control "brain". The DMC and SCDC models supply 120VAC to the payout circuit and the motor is fully controlled by the "brain... it can possibly run at full zot speed like the fastest the platter can turn with the makeup table. I've seen problems like that with screwy DMC controls.  |  IP: Logged William Valdes Film Handler Posts: 37 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Sep 2004 posted 11-17-2004 11:12 AM                     We tend to get our take-up platter rollers bent when a careless projectionist allows that "Yo-Yo" to hit the top  |  IP: Logged Chase Hanson Expert Film Handler Posts: 172 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 11-18-2004 04:52 AM                     quote: Randy Stankey Do you have the motors disengaged from the platter when you thread? No... When I "learned" how to thread some 2 odd years ago the "yo-yo" was calibrated in a fashion such that it would operate 'properly'. After a short hiatus I have returned to numerous trees that now operate with this dysfunction, now I just gorrilla the platter until the motor stops, but my first few threads were quite a shock. Ill try disengaging the platter. Also, Manuals, ironically enough, are scarse in our booth. I think there are two sets of manuals in our whole booth...one is in a giant binder on the Techs desk and the other is hidden amoungest a sea of binders in our supply cabinet. I think only like 3 or 4 people know where they are. They hate it when shit breaks, but they refuse to enable us to fix 90% of our problems.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-20-2004 12:12 PM                     quote: Dave Macaulay I've seen problems like that with screwy DMC controls. Dave, Didn't Strong do a major revision on the DMC controler? Seems to me that replacement controlers that I install are drastically different than the original ones.... Anyway.... was wondering if you are seeing the problems occuruing in your area with the older or the current module? Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Ken Layton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1452 From: Olympia, Wash. USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 11-20-2004 06:58 PM                     DMC payout control units are obsolete and were replaced by SCDC units. From what I heard from Design & Manufacturing, the company that actually made the DMC circuit boards went out of business (some of the components were special, too). D&M had to switch board makers and with all the troubles of the DMC decided to redesign the whole thing. That's what evolved in the SCDC. The SCDC boards are all made by Midwest Printed Circuit Services (www.midwestpcb.com) Strong/Potts/Design & Mfg part number 4571 SCDC retrofit payout control replaces the DMC control directly (plug 'n play). I have the special cable to test/adjust/reload defaults for the DMC controllers. This cable is completely different than the cable used to test SCDC payouts.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-20-2004 08:00 PM                     Thanks Ken for the info!! I thought something major had happened. Most of the systems in this area which amount to less then 30 have been converted to the newer style SCDC boards as the originals failed. Cineplex has the majority of them. Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Ken Layton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1452 From: Olympia, Wash. USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 11-20-2004 10:47 PM                     What I've found with the DMC controls is that most of the time they just need to have the defaults reloaded (the program is in DOS). Usually they'll be ok after reloading the defaults and recalibrating. There are some that the program says "Cannot communicate with unit". When that happens there's nothing you can do to repair it. You have to convert it to an SCDC payout with # 4571. BTW the program to test the SCDC units is for Windows and you can buy the special test cable from Strong/Potts.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-25-2004 04:34 AM                     Yea..with the A-3/AP-3 platters: Check your diodes in them motor cans as well..they love to short across and spin the motor to full torque when the "yo-yo, trombone, the "W", traveller..et.al." is locked up for the threading position, instead of half-torque as they're designed to do during operation (damned vacuum cleaner/leaf blower motors-the Grainger 2M262's). AND...definitely toss them microswitches to the nearest dumpster and install phase control modules. Platters are meant to be running in a continual rotating motion (like the CHR's AW3/R) ,where film likes to continually travel to the projector, not in an on/off state, which can throw a print if a diode in the motor decides to short across and hit full torque, or you have a warped platter deck from some bozo that hammered a splicer when fixing a film problem with the splicer on the platter deck. Not a pretty picture.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-25-2004 08:55 AM                     quote: Monte L Fullmer AND...definitely toss them microswitches to the nearest dumpster and install phase control modules. Monte, Be careful with phase controls as any drifting in timing will be reflected in the feed speed. Now we all know there isn't a Strong platter in the world that can hold its timing for more than a week . There is no way a phase control module can over come timing drift. You will be running around keeping everything in time the rest of your life..... just so the phase controls can feed out nicely . Most chains in the mountain states have tossed the phase controls out and replaced them with lighter spring action micros that are available from Microswitch. The lighter action micros work so gently as to almost effect a continous feed out till you get into the last reel or two. All our customers and many others have gone this route... its also no more expensive than replacing the regular micro, your dealer just needs to know the correct micro switch to supply you with . Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-28-2004 10:49 PM                     Thx again Marko, and I agree with you always - It just seems like those microswitch brains just would love to toss prints without any thought, and as you mention with the last reel or two on the platter, esp. when the switch starts to get hours and usage on it. Since we have a situation like the points in an old car's distributor, wonder if there is a way that a condensor can be placed on one of the wire legs to "soften" up the voltage so the points inside the switch doesn't get so burnt up so quick due to arcing which gets that "peak and valley" between the points inside the switch when the points break apart and close so readilly. Yet, have to tell you a little secret: Remember Northgate when you and I did that overhauling up there to get this theatre going before opening..and that was in 2002? No.4's platters are still running with the phase controls(never got around in changing the brains to microswitch), and this platter still runs the smoothest of all the platters there. - is my liking of phase control brains. When I played "Gods and Generals" at the Nampa, I changed out a brain from microswitch to phase control-to payout that huge 18 reel print (print was 4inches away from the platter's edge when completely built up). For I wanted that print to feed very smooth and continually. It worked real smooth and helped that presentation very well. As for the microswitch availibility: I found that Grainger has these microswitches -the 6X284 - the same size and style as the Strong switch, lasts just as long, just a small modification in taking out the spring that is underneath the tang to make the tang more sensitive for the arm response. Guess you might say: I love the CHR AW3(R) platters-they way they handle film and operate all togther, and sometimes having difficulties accepting these Strong platters at times. thx again-Monte  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-29-2004 08:06 PM                     MOnte, The correct switch is not available from Graingers and is only available from a Hineywell switch dealer. We get them from a local distributer here in SLC. They have far less tension than even the normal Honeywell switch does. Mark  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-01-2004 03:07 AM                     Hi again Marko - is this the correct number from Honeywell: the BZ2RW84-A2? - thx Monte  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-01-2004 08:10 AM                     I'll look at one when I get to work...... MArk  |  IP: Logged

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