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Author Topic: Making Cue Marks Patrick Matthews Film Handler Posts: 86 From: Kansas City, MO, USA Registered: Sep 2004 posted 01-13-2005 11:11 AM                     Hi All, I run film in a small change-over house and the print we recieved today has no cue marks on it! What would be a good way that I could create some? Thanks.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 01-13-2005 11:39 AM                        You really need a purpose-designed cue mark scriber such as an Acmade or a Clint Phare. If, for whatever reason you can't get your hands on one of those, I can think of two possible solutions. Method 1: stick one layer of splicing tape across the base side of the film where the motor and over cues would normally be. Instead of watching for the mark, listen for the 'click' as the tape goes through the gate, as your cue. When rewinding each reel for the last time, peel the tape off. This would be my first choice, but if your booth is very noisy and depending on what projectors you have, you might not be able to hear the clicks very easily. And if your print is totally shagged and has lots of joins in it anyway, you might get confused as to which click is the one to act on. If in doubt, experiment with a loop of scrap film before trying it with an audience. Method 2: very lightly make diagonal slashes on the base side of four consecutive frames, where the cues would normally be, using a white Chinagraph pencil. Unless the image is very dark you'll see these as easily as lab cues. This is not ideal, because the audience will see them too - they'll be more noticeable than proper cues. But if there's no other option, it should get you out of trouble. When rewinding each reel for the last time, rub them off gently using a lint-free cloth. They should come off without leaving any trace that they were there.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 01-13-2005 12:22 PM                     What I sometimes do is to make dots with a spirit based 'permanent' pen on the base side of the film. If I'm going to run the print several times then I sometimes cover them with tape to prevent them rubbing off. After the last show they can be removed with a drop of alcohol on a cloth. Is this a normal release print, or an 'archive' one? If the latter you should avoid doing anything irreversible to it without the permission of the owner. If the corner of the frame is dark, then any form of ink or pencil cues may be difficult to see. In this case you have three options: Leo's method one. Put ink or pencil cues elsewhere on the frame. Scribe cues. The first is the best option if you can do it. The second avoids permanently marking the print, but you have to be careful to remember, and to make sure that anyone else running the print knows, that the cues are in a non-standard place, e.g. in the bottom right, or top left corner. If you have to scribe cues then you should use a proper marker; roughly hand scribed ones, which vary in size, shape and position from frame to frame, look terrible. If you get a print which has cues, but they're in the wrong place, either because somebody has done it wrong, or because frames have been lost at the end of the reel, if you possibly can, avoid making new cues in the correct place; use the existing ones, and adjust your starting frame, and changeover timing, to compensate. Write down details of the cues on the film sheet, as a reminder to yourself, and make sure any other projectionist reads them. e.g. Motor cue: scribed circles, 5 frames late Changeover cue: black printed dots, 2 frames early. If you find that somebody has made multiple sets of oversized, hand scribed cues all over the print, say something very unpleasant about them!  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-13-2005 06:48 PM                     Small "Avery Dots" also work for removable visible cues. The click tab is the slickest (Leo described it above), if there aren't splices around the cue area since it is "cueless" to the audience. Steve  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-13-2005 06:58 PM                     Leo's first method is the best, but another one that works very well is to lay a piece of Artist's tape over the inboard sprockets and punch it with the splicer. This creates a white visible cue easily seen by looking into the upper loop of the projector running. Only problem with this is that some projectors are too hard on the film for this to hold up for more than a few shows, and some booths require you to be standing by the incoming projector's controls.  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-14-2005 01:24 AM                        Making those click strips with a bit of masking tape attached & perforated on the sprocket edge is an old, old method, & has been used for daily runs in changeover houses. They'll make enough noise to be heard. As Brad says, if the projector is hard on film, they'll degrade, but if you're running garden-variety Simplexes or Century's, they should hold up fine. Just before running them would be a good excuse to check the gate band tension with the regularly-done cleaning of the bands, runners, rollers, sprockets, sound drum, etc. in the film path. Edit: I just discovered there is no manual for the Clint Phare marker in the manuals section, & am emailing a scan of the original origami-folded instructions immediately to Brad. Do they expect people to just look at this complicated device & guess how it works? [ 01-14-2005, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: William Hooper ]  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 01-14-2005 04:33 AM                     ..I used to use an X-acto knife with a new blade and actually draw in the tiny circles in the position of the film where the cues needs to be (this was with prints that were well hammered to where both cuemarks were completely gone...) Or...in my training days, was to take that X-acto knife and acutally draw around the black dotted cue marks so I can see them better when I was a projectionist at a D.I. with a 400 ft throw and a somewhat small screen - kinda hard to see those marks that far away. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 01-14-2005 04:56 AM                     Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that black, printed cues on prints seem to be gettng bigger, and further in from the corner of the frame. They can look really ugly, especially on scope prints.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 01-14-2005 05:05 AM                     ...I've noticed that also, especially with the Scope prints - just a bit bigger than needed. Possibly, that the exhibitors want to move the cues back to the edge more. For remember when the cues for the Scope prints, and not to long ago, looked liked they were almost right center of the picture - for theatres with cropped (2.00/1 and less) ratioed screens? So, to compensate for the cropped ratioed screens, it looks like by moving the cue more right, is to make them bigger so they can still be seen upon changeover. -monte  |  IP: Logged Bernard Tonks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England Registered: Apr 2001 posted 01-14-2005 05:18 AM                     Many years ago when it was only changeovers, I used to cut square cues from black coloured selotape which always looked neat and kept firmly in place without oozing. These could be easily seen on the darkest of scenes. I would do the same today but also try Steve's small 'Avery Dots'.  |  IP: Logged Joe Beres Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 606 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 01-14-2005 09:21 AM                     I never use ink or any scratching implement other than a proper cue marker. One method, similar to the avery dots, is to use letraset graphic tape. I think it is discontinued, but a lot of graphic supply stores still have stock. You can get clear tape with black dots, and they work rather well, and come off fairly cleanly. A little film cleaner will clean off any residue, but I usually don't see too much. That is a trick that Frank Angel passed along.  |  IP: Logged Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 01-14-2005 12:31 PM                     Patrick, is this a European film?  |  IP: Logged Patrick Matthews Film Handler Posts: 86 From: Kansas City, MO, USA Registered: Sep 2004 posted 01-14-2005 02:40 PM                     Brian, Actually it is a Korean film released through Tartan films which I believe is in the U.S. I ran it yesterday and used the tape method and I could identify the sound as it went through the machine so that method is the one which I think will work best for me. Thanks.  |  IP: Logged Gunnar Johansson Expert Film Handler Posts: 181 From: Gothenburg, Sweden Registered: Mar 2003 posted 01-14-2005 05:05 PM                        My mentor once told me about a method he used once at a festival when the director was in the audience and wouldn´t stand for any modifications... We have an automation system with lights up at the first aluminum foil, but it´s a bit slow, so he put aluminum foil at motor start so when the dimmer said it wanted to fade up he killed it to dark and the started motor and shifted... He probably heard the tape as well, and I imagine you could see the cue tape, but it worked... A bit of an ugly trick, but if it gets you through the night without to much impact on the three important things: film, equipment and audience... //Gunnar  |  IP: Logged Dick Twentyman Film Handler Posts: 21 From: Highton, Victoria, Australia, Registered: Oct 2004 posted 01-14-2005 09:57 PM                  Here's a way NOT to make cues:- In the bad old days (around 1950's) we had a cinema here in Geelong, Australia, where the projectionist used to wind a penny into the film pack at the motor start cue and at the changeover cue positions. When the first penny dropped into the spool box - start the motor. When the second penny dropped - changeover. God knows what would have happened if a penny ever managed to slide down through the upper spool box fire trap, or what damage the penny did to the film whilst tightly squeezed between layers. Obviously, this is a method to never be used.  |  IP: Logged

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