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Topic: THX Cinemas in NYC Area

Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 02-28-2005 01:51 AM

Does anyone know when the following New York City area theatres became THX certified?

Bay Plaza
Bridgewater Commons
Chelsea
Essex Green
Orpheum
Village Theatre VII

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-28-2005 11:26 PM

Cineplex Odeon opened Chelsea Cinemas on 23rd Street in 1989. I can't remember for sure if it had one or two THX screens. It had at least two 70mm equipped screens.

The Loews Village Theater VII opened in the spring of 1991. I watched "Thelma and Louise" there. It's the only time I've ever seen a movie preceded with a Dolby SR snipe.
(edit)
BTW, only one of the seven screens was THX.

I'm not absolutely positive about these details, but I think the Loews Orpheum was closed for renovation around the end of 1989 or early 1990. Then it reopened in 1991 with the THX screen. Anyone currently living in NYC can please correct me about this if need be.

I can't tell you for sure about the others. I seem to remember the Bay Plaza being THX from the time when I first moved to NYC in 1986.

[ 03-01-2005, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Bobby Henderson ]

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 03-01-2005 08:34 AM

None of the Loews Theatres advertises the THX anymore. The only house that had a THX lobby poster is the Regal Union Square plex (former UA). But they had a problem with sound coming from their A/C.
Coming from the West Coast where almost everything is THX, it looks like NYC never really used it like other cities.

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 03-01-2005 08:47 AM

Many of the theater that I worked at in NYC and out on Long Island tried for THX certification but were rejected. Most of the problems were A/C related. There never seemed to be a great effort made to do it.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 03-01-2005 11:41 AM

I find that, like Richard said, usually auditorium A/C noise is what fails THX. It can be very expensive to fix A/C problems after the place is opened.

I think the very root of this problem is the architect/owner/THX relationship. An architect is asked to design a building for X amount of money. He does, and gives copies of the plans to the owner and to GC's to bid. The owner gives a copy to THX. A month later THX returns with suggestions, but by that time GC's are bidding and nothing can be changed without additional cost. The HVAC enginner has to consulted (more time and $$.) The GC's want to see the THX revisied plans to get an estimite. However, the architect feels he is done with plans and wants additional $$ to change them.

People think they can simply make an HVAC contractor sign a paper saying the noise level will be below so-and-so. In real life (without proper plans from the architect) they won't sign it without adding a large cost. Also, HVAC contractors will specify noise level using the STC standard, which is worthless for theaters.

Sorry for the rant! [Mad]

This was a big issue I had to deal with.

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 03-01-2005 12:22 PM

Sounds like good ranting to me. You are 100% correct on every point.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-01-2005 12:30 PM

We specify as a condition of bidding on a project that the finished HVAC system must not exceed NC30 and if the contractor will not bid on it as such (also from the start the mech engineer has that in their spec requirment as well) too bad for them
I have made contractors even remove units that have failed on theatre openings

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-01-2005 12:54 PM

Sorry for what some will undoubtedly consider a dumb-assed question... but what is "NC30"?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-01-2005 01:27 PM

quote: Mark J. Marshall
Sorry for what some will undoubtedly consider a dumb-assed question... but what is "NC30"?

It's a measure of noise level relative to a frequency weighted response:

http://www.sota.ca/nc_info.htm

quote:
NOISE CRITERIA (NC) METHOD

The Noise Criterion provide a single number rating for the sound levels measured or predicted in a room.

Noise Criterion curves have been used for a long time now in evaluating the existing noise conditions indoors. Many specifications for target noise levels and associated noise control measures are also written based on the Noise Criterion curves.

The curves were derived by Leo L. Beranek from sound level measurements taken in occupied rooms with the mechanical systems operating and from personnel surveys. The curves were published in 1957 and they are still widely used today, although more modern criteria had been developed since. The criterion was developed to assess the noise levels in occupied rooms. Beranek originally used speech interference as a basis to develop the curves.

The Noise Criterion curves are octave band curves with a single number rating attached to each of them (see Figure 1). The methodology of determining the NC rating of a particular sound spectrum requires plotting the octave band spectrum under assessment against the NC curves and select the lowest NC curve that has values that aer higher or equal to the ones assessed in all octave bands.

http://www.cinemaequipmentsales.com/dolby7.html

quote:
4.0 Acoustics
4.1 Criteria

4.1.1 Noise Floor

The steady-state theatre noise floor should preferably be below NC25, with NC30 the worst case acceptable. Intermittent increased noise floors should not exceed NC35.

Dolby SR and SR•D sound-tracks can contain very quiet sounds, as well as louder peaks than conventional film sound-tracks. Playback of these subtle components requires extra attention to background noise levels in the theatre.

Background noises can be broken into two types: steady-state noise, caused by HVAC equipment, refrigerators, projector noise and distant traffic rumble; and intermittent noise, caused by adjacent traffic noise, aircraft noise, footfall and adjacent screen breakthrough.

Figure 4.1 details the frequency characteristics of a family of NC curves in the range of interest. It should be noted that these curves show the NC figures for noise measurements made in whole octave bands, as conventionally used for background noise measurements. Figure 4.2 shows a family of curves for use in third-octave bands.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-01-2005 08:39 PM

quote: Bill Gabel
None of the Loews Theatres advertises the THX anymore.

Even when Cineplex Odeon and Loews were opening up new or renovated sites with THX-certified screens, the advertising wasn't for squat even during the opening.

For example, the only reason I knew the Loews Village Theater VII had a THX screen was through a "grand opening" newspaper ad. Same thing goes for the Chelsea Cinemas location. The regular stack ads would rarely ever list it. I collected a lot of 70mm ad clippings from the New York Times through the late 1980s and early 1990s. I think the only ad I have where THX is listed is on a display ad for "Batman Returns". Just two theaters show up THX certified in the metro-wide stack ad: the Loews Village Theater VII (showing it in THX-DD) and the Loews Orpheum VII (showing it in THX-SR optical).

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 03-02-2005 12:47 PM

In Los Angeles, Cineplex Odeon had 5 locations that had been THX-ed in operation.

Century-Plaza-4 (1 screen)
Beverly Center-13 (2 screens)
Odeon Westwood-1 (1 screen)
Universal Citywalk-14 (4 screens)
Marina-6 (1 screen)

They advertised on screen and in print that they had THX.
By the time Cineplex became a part of Loews. They only advertised the Century Plaza, Universal Citywalk locations. They dropped THX out of Beverly Center and the Marina. They dropped the Odeon Westwood after their lease finished and Mann Theatres recertified the house.
They only time I have seen a THX display was in the theatre lobby of the UA Union Square Theatre. I had to look a the THX site to see that NYC had those other theatres listed.
Also Edwards Theatres would build a few theatres that featured THX auditoriums and after a year or so, drop the THX listing and any THX lobby signage. Because of the yearly fee.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 03-02-2005 01:45 PM

Is it more difficult to get THX certification on larger auditoriums like the Edwards Big Newport (1200+ seats, 80-foot screen)? I asked Edwards why they never got that house THX-certified, and their reply stated that the size of the room made it difficult-to-impossible to do. I figured that meant "Very Expensive". HVAC noise may have been a problem there.

The 3rd house they built at Newport Center was originally THX, but it was much smaller.

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 03-02-2005 02:16 PM

Well Mann's National Theatre in Westwood and their Chinese Theatre in Hollywood are both THX-ed. And are large theatres like the Edwards Big Newport house. When "Jedi" opened at the UA Egyptian in Hollywood. They re-did their sound system, but they used THX type components. But they never THX-ed that theatre.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-02-2005 09:45 PM

Los Angeles newspaper stack ads have generally been very good at promoting THX from the outset. Most metro-area stack ads would have THX logos spattered all over the listings. New York ads would hardly ever have any.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-03-2005 09:37 AM

David said "the size of the room made it difficult-to-impossible to do"
usually it is reverberation time issues in large rooms that get to be the problem though of course one does have to move more air in large rooms but often the much larger duct sizes and diffusers tend to cause less turbulance noise

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