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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Osram Bulb Analysis=High Inrush/High Current Ripple -Poor Power Supply Question (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Osram Bulb Analysis=High Inrush/High Current Ripple -Poor Power Supply Question
Stephen Frazza
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Nutley, NJ, USA
Registered: Mar 2004

- posted 03-10-2005 12:50 AM      Profile for Stephen Frazza   Author's Homepage   Email Stephen Frazza   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My boss sent a bulb back to Osram to try and get credit and we got this analysis report back from them.

It was a XBO 1600 W/HS OFR with about 300 hours on it.It wouldnt ignite anymore.Their comment was;

Lamp inspection indicates cathode fissured cause by high inrush and high current ripple from poor power supply.Please check and repair equipment.

It was in a Strong X-90 with a Strong Xenon power supply type 62-80000

After that bulb went we put a new bulb adapter on the cathode side in because the old one looked shot.
Then we had trouble with another bulb that wouldn't ignite but ended up working fine in another projector(same setup)
Our tech said the blower wasn't blowing strong enuff and to replace it, which we are in the process of doing.

My questions are:
How do I test for any problems- I'm trying to get hold of an ammeter but will this be enough?
Also does this type of problem mean the whole power supply is shot or can something like this be repaired?
What's the best course of action here because we don't want to
be blowing threw bulbs like this.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 03-10-2005 12:58 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First thing to prevent problems with your rectifier, is to take off the big black front cover, grab a compressor with an "air jack" nozzle on front and blow that rectifier out, since the inner fans are actually pulling in dust and the dust collects everywhere inside, creating excessive heat.

High ripple could be caused by the switching transistors are beginning to fail - due to this heat buildup. I bet that your rectifier is getting ready to fail, which consitiutes a replacement rectifier from Strong.

How old is that X-90 console anywho? on the "X-90" faceplace, there is a manufacturer date when the console was built.

Then when this is all taken care of, dump the Osrams and switch over to Christies - better warranty replacment is the reason. Osram gets grumpy on warranty stuff.

Good luck-Monte

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99

- posted 03-10-2005 02:35 AM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have had some early failure of Osrams on X-90s too.. I will try what you have suggested Monte. We have already started ordering Christie's in place of the Osrams.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

- posted 03-10-2005 02:49 AM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A current clamp like the Fluke i410 is a good and affordable add-on tool for your multimeter. You simply plug it in and the ampère readings are given out in millivolts. A lot of of cheaper amp meters actually only read AC current, so check the specifications carefully before you get one.
However, it has been pointed out that a problem with switching power supplies like the one you have is that it may have high ripple in higher frequencies most amp meters are not sensitive for. Maybe somebody could provide more details about this?

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

- posted 03-10-2005 07:18 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osram lamps seem to be by far the most common here.

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Then when this is all taken care of, dump the Osrams and switch over to Christies - better warranty replacment is the reason. Osram gets grumpy on warranty stuff.
You expect them to replace lamps which have failed prematurely due to faults with your rectifiers?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 03-10-2005 08:37 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stephen,

Long ago Osram was blaiming everyone but themselves for their poor lamp lifes....When I was with K-B Theatres in the '80s we got the "your rectifier has high in-rush current" and crap.

The solution...switched to Christie lamps and magically, our in-rush problems also vanished.

It isn't the rectifier persay, it is the bad Osram lamps...this does not preclude rectifier failure and actual in-rush problems nor aged and failing capacitors. However...if trying another brand lamp cures the problem...then that points the finger at the lamp.

Steve

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-10-2005 09:24 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well to be fare to Osram they did invent the xenon lamp and wrote the specs on them
Other bulb makers have often different specs on specific items one that always caught my attention was that ushio (christie) had a much higher spec for allowable inrush current probably because of the design of the sanrex rectifiers that ushio had worked on the design of

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Brad Allen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Evansville, IN, USA
Registered: May 2000

- posted 03-10-2005 01:23 PM      Profile for Brad Allen   Email Brad Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have 3 Kneisley Kni-Tron Xenex L2000 lamp house's.
I've had problems at times with the igniting of lamps when they are hot.
Could the Osram Lamps be the reason?
I've replaced caps, even replaced one rectifier, and the problem continues.
My dealer swears by Osram.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

- posted 03-10-2005 01:37 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We had problems with that years ago on the Xenex 1 Lamphouses I used to work with. Only thing that solved the problem was replacing the existing igniter with strong igniter. No more problems striking bulb when hot.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 03-10-2005 02:15 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now, I'm actually still learning as I go, but I've heard that even though Osram did invent the xenon bulb, and in their early years, had their "teething pains" so to say, (I remember that their used to be a warning in the bulb box mentioning of bulb explosions within the first half-hour of the bulb's operation) yet Osrams were the bulbs to be had-nothing else - no Hanovias, no ORC's, Marbles, et.al. - just nothing can beat an Osram.

Yet, I've heard that ever since Osram and Sylvania joined, that quality has really taken a downward spin with Osrams. Thus these problems started to show up.

Like for an example in a service call that I had last year: a small "indie" theatre that has CH20 consoles. Operator puts in a new Osram "HTP" bulb. Three days later no light. Dead. Ignitor was "sounding" weak. I put in a new ignitor. Better ignition, but still no ignition. Pulled out the diode bank. All six diodes checked out okey. (I was condemning everything in tha console..) -then on to the bulb. Took out the Osram and put in a Christie. "POW" damned thing lit right up. "Freaking Osram bulbs" I hollered.

..one of my many stories with the experiences with Osrams...

..with this, Osrams have degraded themselves to the level of the Perkin-Elmers, which used to be that damned ORC company, IMO.
Told the owner to send this frikken Osram back where it came from and exchange this POS for a Christie at the supplier. Unfortunately, the owner had a bit of a tough time with the warranty due to the small amount of hours on that Osram. But I heard that the owner won this one.

This "indie" house is now using Christies and have no problems ever since.

thx-Monte

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

- posted 03-10-2005 02:44 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Years ago Osram had the advantage of using a process to treat the electrodes with a radioactive doping procedure to help on life extension....this is no longer allowed.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 03-10-2005 02:58 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Richard Fowler
Years ago Osram had the advantage of using a process to treat the electrodes with a radioactive doping procedure to help on life extension....this is no longer allowed.
So do modern xenon lamps of any make still contain radioactive electron-emission enhancers like Thorium?

http://www.toshiba-tmat.co.jp/tmat/eng/material/e_tan_7.htm

quote:
4. Discharge lamp parts
We manufacture pure tungsten parts and special elements alloyed tungsten parts for xenon lamp electrodes or other gas discharge lamps.
For the cathodes requiring electron emission, we offer thorium tungsten W56.

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004

- posted 03-10-2005 05:42 PM      Profile for Richard May   Email Richard May   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For what it's worth, most of the theaters around here use Osrams and never had a problem. I have rarely heard of an Osram bulb coming up short on hours. On the other hand, I have seen many problems with Christie bulbs. Go figure. [Confused]

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 03-11-2005 04:28 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Richard May
For what it's worth, most of the theaters around here use Osrams and never had a problem. I have rarely heard of an Osram bulb coming up short on hours. On the other hand, I have seen many problems with Christie bulbs.
..can't argue with this one. Seen 2k Osrams pull over 6k hours (envelope blacker than pitch with anode plugs with nasty tungsten buildup), to where they puke out right after warranty hours for no reason or another.

Seen Christies run as long, only with clear envelopes and the still knarly looking anode plugs, to where they also puke out well under warranty.

..It's all up to the indivdual user on what they prefer...

Yep, it's a go-figure thing.

-Monte

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Bob Brown
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Grand Rapids, MI
Registered: Apr 2002

- posted 03-12-2005 03:01 PM      Profile for Bob Brown   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a question here... I know a projectionist that has a pair of OSRAM XBO 7K lamps that were "reburned" from OSRAM. I think they were sent under warrenty back to OSRAM for flickering, they both have about 200 hrs on them. What exactly is meant by the term "reburned"? What is the "reburning" process

Thanks

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