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Author Topic: SRD - Penthouse or Basement - preference? Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-11-2005 10:55 AM                        We may have it in the budget to get SRD for our big house. We already have DTS and Mag penthouses -- I am wondering if adding yet another top reader (as well as the 6000 magazine) would make it a little unwieldy from the operator's perspective -- he might need a step-stool to load the 6000ft reels. Assuming I can get a basement reader (Component systems?), is there any reason NOT to go basement as opposed to a penthouse? Or should I just go with a penthouse and buy a step-stool?  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-11-2005 11:12 AM                     what make of optical soundhead is involved  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 04-11-2005 11:22 AM                     I've always preferred the penthouse readers. I feel they generally read better, (stay in alignment) which might help running older rep prints. In one place I worked, they pivoted the upper reel arm way over to about the "10 o'clock" position to keep the reel from hitting the ceiling. Do you run enough mag to keep the mag head on all the time? I wonder why no one ever made a basement DTS reader?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-11-2005 11:49 AM                     Frank, There is no reason not to use a basement reader if one is available for your projector/soundhead. Those that prefer penthouse readers typically just find them easier since they are a bolt on...then again...if the penthouse goes out of alignment (LED mounts mostly) they are lost there too. I've done basement readers on Simplex, Century and Kinoton...no problems. If you have problems with a basement reader...it isn't reading the optical sound as well as it should either. Set them up right, they are stable and reliable. As to DTS...they can't do a basement reader since their timecode will not allow for the reader to be after the projection aperture. What I wish DTS did offer was a better reader or a version that would allow it to go in place of a 35 mag head so the film would be stable and not suffer from weave and bounce. I know Mark G has done this for Norelco where the mag head is removed and a DTS reader goes in its place...I'll wager those don't have reading problems at all unless the track is physically defective.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-11-2005 01:12 PM                       Most people prefer penthouse readers for retrofit as it is much closer to plug and play than a basement reader. It kind of depends on who you have for a technician and how availible he/she is for follow-up. If this is dicey, than a penthouse is a better choice as you can get a replacement and send the broken one back to the factory without disrupting the theatre. There might be a slight edge to using a basement reader with reel to reel as the basement reader is immune to bent reels, etc, but again, it comes down to who your tech is. Not everyone is as talented as Guttag.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-11-2005 06:44 PM                        I also have had good to excellent results with the "basement" readers; usually Kelmar. There are three items to consider: 1. Can you find an excellent technician who "understands?" 2. Is your soundhead Century, Simplex, RCA? (prob. Kintone also) 3. Is your booth operator actually willing to thread the penthouse every time, every day with the proper tension? Your answers to these will lead you in the right direction for you. Note: I have actually REMOVED digital from one theatre where the "operator" refused to thread the penthouse....We removed the digital and put it into another theatre where cooperation was assured. Note that basement readers assure digital presentation if threaded at all. With auto-digitl enabled it is a no brainer.....sometimes needed!  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-11-2005 07:42 PM                       I believe Louis basically agreed and repeated what I said. Hello Louis and welcome. You finally learned how to use a keyboard? Older Simplex 5 Star soundheads generally have more trouble with "basement" (as in bargain, just kidding) readers as the lateral guide has trouble holding the film in the proper outward position. Also, in a basement reader where the film is moved to achieve proper lateral position, every time you need to make an adjustment to eliminate a buzzing analog soundtrack, you also move the film in front of the digital reader as well. Here's betting the lateral guide roller never gets put back to its calibrated position. My original intention for the basement readers is to lock down the film path and have individual lateral adjustments for analog and digital. I could not convince Component Engineering owner Bill Purdy to do it my way when I joined the company in 1994. This was only the first of many battles I lost while there. The Apogee of course, as well as most European projectors have a fixed film path and individual adjustments.  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 04-11-2005 09:24 PM                        I have used both as a projectionist and serviced both. I have no real preference as a projectionist but basement is easier for new people since they don't have to do anything different, but anyone that can't figure out a penthouse probably shouldn't be operating. For some reason servicing penthouses seems easier but probably only because I am over 6ft, my boss prefers basements and is closer to the basement:) In reality they both do the same thing very well so you should think about what you want to thread. Also I tend to prefer Kelmar over CE as far as basements.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-12-2005 02:03 AM                     Hey Sam, how are those BACP penthouse Dolby Digital readers? Can anyone share any feedback on this one? Only thing that I've heard is that they perform great and much cheaper than the Cat-701/2 series. thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-12-2005 08:39 AM                     Monte...as penthouse readers go, they are as good as you will find. My biggest complaint with the BACP reader and the Cat. 702 is the lack of ability to kill the LED when not in use...in some of our non-cinema applications, the equipment racks stay powered 24-hours.  |  IP: Logged Dean Kollet Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 591 From: Florida State University Registered: Jul 2003 posted 04-12-2005 08:54 AM                     I've only used the Cat700/701s and the Kelmar Basment reader, and both worked fine. I really don't have a preference, although I agree with the Penthouse being a lot more plug and play. But, you install it once, so.....the leds are easier to replace on the Penthouse though.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-12-2005 09:54 AM                        From the operator's point of view, I prefer penthouse readers. They (particularly the cat. 700 and also the BACP) seem to track better than the CE basement readers (I have not seen the Kelmar) and are super-easy to install (it took me fifteen minutes to set one up in a single-machine configuration). They can also be swapped out easily if there is a problem. For reel-to-reel use, penthouse readers are convenient because they can easily be bypassed to, for example, easily run a trailer reel in SR (select format 10 on the processor, thread the trailer reel to bypass the reader, and let the processor revert to format 05 as no digital information will be present) and then changeover to the first reel of the feature (threaded through the reader) in SRD. I realize that this isn't an issue if the installation has sound format controls next to each machine, but not every booth is set up this way.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-12-2005 02:00 PM                     quote: Steve Guttag to kill the LED when not in use... ...then, couldn't a A/B switch be placed in the automation circuit for the P/S line cord so that the LED could be switched off during machine rest? How would one do this with a CAT-702 with it's built-in power supply where this unit doesn't have the line cord for external power? thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-12-2005 04:07 PM                     quote: Monte L Fullmer then, couldn't a A/B switch be placed in the automation circuit for the P/S line cord so that the LED could be switched off during machine rest? How would one do this with a CAT-702 with it's built-in power supply where this unit doesn't have the line cord for external power? With most the readers its a VERY simple matter of hooking the readers power supply across the motor circuit. Tis way the reader is switched on and off with the motor. No wasted LED time this way. With the 702 it may not really be needed. Since this sound head uses the BACP technology which has pretty long LED life anyway. It would certinly be possible to interrupt the DC going to the reader with the exciter sitching circuit in most automations, or a relay across the motor circuit. As for basement or penthouse.... I have no problem using the later Kelmar basement readers. They work just about as well as a penthouse reader dors... perhaps one digit higher error rate or so. For penthouse readers the BACP DSTR unit is about as good as it can get. C.E. sucks as far as basement readers go. Mark  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-12-2005 04:34 PM                     quote: Mark Gulbrandsen With most the readers its a VERY simple matter of hooking the readers power supply across the motor circuit. Tis way the reader is switched on and off with the motor. ...so, going further with this, one could do this same trick with ANY LED power supplies-basement,or penthouse, analog or digital? -thx Monte  |  IP: Logged

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