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Topic: Manufacturers of new 35/70mm Projectors

Andrew McCrea
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 645
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-26-2005 05:21 PM

Hello fellow techers!

Do you know of any manufacturers (Kinoton, Strong, Christie, etc.) that are currently making new 35/70mm projectors?

I've searched their websites and the archieves but can't find anything for the life of me!

*I've still been searching, and while some say that they have 70mm projectors, there's no additional information for them. I do know of the VIC 8 35/70mm prpjector, but I'm looking for other ones too.

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 05-26-2005 05:44 PM

Well, the Kinoton's projector wasn't hard to find.

Kinoton e-projectors

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Andrew McCrea
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 645
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-26-2005 05:47 PM

Sorry, specifically I meant a console mount version.

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Kris Brunton
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 108
From: Napanee, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 05-26-2005 05:57 PM

Most manufacturers offer there projectors as a console mount or pedestal mount. The Simplex PR3570 or the Century JJ is available from Ballantyne as a console mount.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-26-2005 06:17 PM

Kinoton does not normally ever do console mount persay...the PK-60 being the notable exception for the American market.

The FP40 and FP-50 models are console-like though in that the projector is attached to the console. The console portion being an SK-50. I don't know if they ever offered the SK-50 for mounting an American style projector like a Simplex....but I've digressed far enough.

The Kinoton FP-75E is their current offering in a "cinema" grade projector. Kinoton has never, to the best of my knowledge, had a console type 70mm projector. They have always gone with the column type design. Even the DP 70 had the lamptable mount to the projector, not the projector to some sort of pedestal or console.

The Simplex and Century 35/70 projectors are no longer production items...they are "POA" (aka Price On Application). Which translates into we don't make it on a regular basis so if you want it, don't be in a hurry and we will price one out for you.

I would think that those two could be had cheaper if magnetic sound was not needed since both use the identical 35mm optical soundhead (now) of their 35mm counterparts. Also the gear train are nearly identical. The film path stuff is what is primarily different.

The FP-75E and the Vic-8 (to the best of my knowledge) are both production machines.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-27-2005 03:42 PM

One has to be careful of the FP-75E though. It cannot reliably run 70mm at 30fps.

Mark

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Christian Appelt
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 505
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-27-2005 03:57 PM

Andrew,

how about a rebuilt DP70 which will outlast all current machines and has much gentler handling of film which is a point when you run older acetate 70mm prints?

The gentleman above my post should know more about that option... [thumbsup]

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-27-2005 06:51 PM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
One has to be careful of the FP-75E though. It cannot reliably run 70mm at 30fps.

Sez who? Just what problems have you run into? The pair under my service seem to not care what speed they run at up to 30 fps (and perhaps a wee bit more).

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-27-2005 06:59 PM

Sez the operators at the Seattle Cinerama Theatre that tried to run a 30fps print.... Odd you were there a the F-T Drink Night
when it was being discussed... you musta been mezmerized by all the cheese. The machine there kept blowing rail fuses and shredding film when it was run at 30 fps. Blowing just one rail fuse is a really bad thing on most electronic drive machines... it certainly was on the RCA FR-35 electronic machines. One fuse gone equals instant ultra high speed on what ever servo the fuse happens to blow. You should see the reel servos when this happens [Eek!]

.

Their FP-75E runs just fine at 24 fps though... perhaps one of those guys will chime in. I wanna say it has since been taken over by another DP-70..... but they would have to confirm that one.

BTW: The only way they could get it to run was with the gate tension all the way down.

Mark

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-27-2005 07:22 PM

Mark, I must ask...

Why was the gate tension cranked in the first place?

Was the print properly inspected from head to tail before projection?

Was the print properly lubricated before projection, or were they just trying to run an old and probably brittle acetate print dry out of the cans?

Are they aware that the omega spring in the Kinotons can drastically alter the ACTUAL gate tension?

The skate alignment can also shred film if aligned too high.

The fuse issues sound like a Kinoton goof, but the rest of it sounds like operator error to me. Actually, that brings about another question...

Why did the operators not TEST the 30FPS before putting an actual print through the projector? Did they have no junk film to play with for testing purposes? Had they done this, the fuses would've blown with no film damage.

-------------------

Andrew, if you are going to insist on a console mount 35/70 projector, go with an older Century JJ that has been rebuilt at a place that knows what they are doing. (I would recommend Hadden.) That will outperform anything Strong is capable of producing nowadays at any price.

The Kinoton is the smarter choice though.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 05-27-2005 07:34 PM

1. According to Cinemeccaniac/Milan the Vic 8 has been obsolete for at least 20 years. (This was discussed at the factory while they were checking out a "rebuilt.")

2. I have 8-10 complete JJ in stock and could probably find another 10-20 easily, With the usual Century "updates" these could be excellent machines. My customers normally recycle the SA's but tend not to reinstall the JJ's. (The slight difference between them and SA "confuses" the low level troops!)I mention this since the factory probably has no recent experience; there are PLENTY around.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-27-2005 07:37 PM

And the sad part about it is that the Century JJ will walk all over a Century SA when running 35mm film in every aspect.

Oooooh, but those wide sprockets are just SO HARD FOR THE KIDDIES!!! [Roll Eyes]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-27-2005 07:39 PM

quote: Brad Miller
And the sad part about it is that the Century JJ will walk all over a Century SA when running 35mm film in every aspect.

Agreed 100% Brad!

_____________________________________________

quote: Brad Miller
Why was the gate tension cranked in the first place?

>I didn't say it was cranked just that it had to be run with ZERO tension.... They more than likely started out at normal tension. It normally requires at least some gate tension.......

Was the print properly inspected from head to tail before projection?

>Ask them that but they are pros for sure and I would have to assume yes for sure.

Was the print properly lubricated before projection, or were they just trying to run an old and probably brittle acetate print dry out of the cans?

> It was a decent 30 fps print(at that time) of "Oklahoma". It ran a few months before just fine on a pair of DP-70's at the Ebert Fest.

Are they aware that the omega spring in the Kinotons can drastically alter the ACTUAL gate tension?

>Fuck the Omega spring... if its that critical the design was poorly done! Show me another 70mm machine that has that critical of gate tension.

The skate alignment can also shred film if aligned too high.

> They ran a bunch of 24 fps 70mm stuff with zero problems during that same fest.

The fuse issues sound like a Kinoton goof, but the rest of it sounds like operator error to me. Actually, that brings about another question...

>Who knows....... I was surprised too, that why I mentioned it here.

Why did the operators not TEST the 30FPS before putting an actual print through the projector? Did they have no junk film to play with for testing purposes? Had they done this, the fuses would've blown with no film damage.

> The fuses did not blow until a ways into the film.

Beyond what I was told(You were there too.) and can answer here you'd have to ask them,you know them too, but I think they told me just about everything about that fest. I was pretty surprised to hear about the problem my self and sat and heard the whole story. I do have quite a bit of experience with other electronic projectors that operate similarly to the Kinoton and overall they were pretty reliable but a servo problem can be EXTREMELY spectaculuar to see happen [Big Grin]

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-27-2005 07:55 PM

What happened to that 70mm print of Oklahoma? Did the whole thing get shredded, or was it just a few feet that got damaged? I'm glad I saw it when I did (in Boston, about seven years ago). [Mad]

Question: who is making mag heads now that Ampex and Teccon are out of business? Obviously, there is a market for heads for 16mm and 35mm dubbers, but I can't imagine that there is very much demand for 70mm mag heads (sadly).

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-27-2005 07:56 PM

Sorry Mark, but no I don't know who ran that show. I guess I was obsessing over the cheese with Steve.

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