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Author Topic: Simplex gate noise problem! -> OT AAIIs suck! No, JJs suck! No, AAIIs suck! Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 07-01-2005 01:49 PM                     OK, I am finally giving up and going to the forums on this one: I have ten Simplex 1050's, 6 1980 models and 4 1985 models. The 1985 ones were converted from electric turrets to manual turrets, and the traps were retrofitted to accept standard Simplex aperture plates. All are 'straight gate' machines. All ten have had the gates and traps completely disassembled, cleaned, and rebuilt with new rails, etc. before the theatre went into operation. The problem is that there is a very annoying metallic 'clatter' coming from several of the gates as the projector runs with film in them (no clattering when running empty). This clatter is so loud that it can be clearly be heard in the auditorium, so much as to cause customers (and management) to complain. I have tried loosening the gate tension, and futzing with the gate stop bolt as to try to stop the clatter, but alas, if I back it off to where the clatter finally begins to subside, one of two things happen: Either the picture becomes unfocusable on one side, or the image gets totally unsteady to the point of being unwatchable! I have the upper management leaning on me HARD to get this corrected, and am running out of ideas!!! What can I do?!?!? (Sorry, Brad, but 'Buy Kinotons' is not an acceptable answer in this situation) -Aaron [ 07-04-2005, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: Adam Martin ]  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jr Expert Film Handler Posts: 211 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Jul 2000 posted 07-01-2005 01:58 PM                     Are they 'studio gate' models? If so, the smalller upper pressure pad assembly is usually the culprit. Try just touching the top and putting a bit of pressure on it as it runs with your finger. If this helps, check that the springs are all around the same tension.  |  IP: Logged Dan Lyons Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 698 From: Seal Beach, CA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 07-01-2005 02:19 PM                     Are you running with FilmGuard? That will help alot, those gates are incredibley noisy when run with "dry" film. Another quick fix that works. * take a very small piece of artists tape, place one half of it over the back of one side of the upper rail, and the other half on the body of the gate casting. (not sure if that makes much sense, if you want you can post a photo of the gate from the back side and i'll draw on it) This little tape trick will stop the upper rail from rattling and dramatically cut the projector noise. The pressure arms inside this style gate are made from cheap metal which warps, making it impossible to get even tension across different rails.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-01-2005 02:19 PM                     1. Buy Kinoton ...other options... 2. Buy high quality port windows (or at least be sure yours are truly sealed) 3. If you must, throw some more money into the Simplexes and install curved gates. Most of those straight gate units are inherently noisy anyway. 4. Just in case, I shall mention upper loop size. 5. You can always try Rick's tip on the springs. You are probably hearing one of the 3 sections that is so loose it is chattering. In a pinch I have sandwiched a washer to shorten the distance the spring needed to push so that it would give a little more pressure. It's not a great solution, but then again I did say "buy Kinoton" from day one. (For those not in the know, Kinoton teasing to Aaron is something I simply have to do. )  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-01-2005 03:36 PM                     Does those 1050 studio trap verions have that gate stop allen screw on the inboard side of the trap assembly? That stop allen screw WILL travel inwards after many gate openings and closings causing the assembly to close too tight, pinching the film, rattling the intermittent assembly, gouging out sprocket holes, and shedding film. Also, with flat trap and gate assemblies, the upper loop needs to be built a good half-inch higher than the curved gate variety. For if the upper loop is too small, it will chatter the top of the rails in the gate. Check the the old XL manual and you'll see this stop allen screw. The way to adjust is if the intermittent shoes are swiveling under the intermittent sprocket, the gate is closing too tight. Adjust the screw to where the shoes touch the sprocket upon closing and "think" of swiveling under the sprocket. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-01-2005 09:38 PM                     Bwahahahahaha.... You have straight gates........ . You know the story... Strong/Simplex..... Now approaching the 100 mark for design of different gates and traps. Mark  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-01-2005 10:06 PM                        Meanwhile, the popular Century gate/trap designs (C, SA, and JJ..._not_ the horrid H type) have been trouble-free.... (Though I haven't dealt with Centurys with lens turrets, unless you count threading one reel at Brad's screening room.) What are the other Simplex designs? I have dealt with the Super Simplex (straight), X-L (straight), X-L (curved), and Millennium (curved). What else is there (obviously the 1050...)?  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 07-02-2005 01:10 AM                       Try bending the spring, to apply more pressure to the TOP set of runners. You can test this theory by first sticking your finger behind them and pressing towards the film. If that's the cause, the noise will subside. I've found these upper pressure pads can be the source of a lot of noise if they're light on tension. You'd think that running it loosely would make it better, but it doesn't. It just rattles like a SOB.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 07-02-2005 01:52 AM                     I'll try the top runner tension trick. (Sorry, Brad, no Kinotons...) I have noticed that pressing against the top runner DOES quiet things up a lot. Will let you know what happens... -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-02-2005 01:55 AM                     Confusious say wise men ditch idea of Strong projectors and install Kinoton on their next theater project.  |  IP: Logged Adam Martin I'm not even gonna point out the irony. Posts: 3686 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 07-02-2005 03:03 AM                     But where the hell will the owner find *used* Kinotons?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-02-2005 02:35 PM                     We were offered some about two months ago.... We apassed on them cause they were 16/35's and I HATE the 16mm Kinoton. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-02-2005 04:55 PM                     We have a pair of FP 30s and a pair of FP 20s plus 3 FP 18s and two FP 16s  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 07-03-2005 04:00 AM                     So: I have done the following: I placed a small cardboard shim between the top rail and the rear of the gate housing. On several of the machines, this reduced the clatter significantly. Some of the others are still making a racket, but I think that they are because of other factors (gate set too close, etc). I will continue trying things to attempt to get it to work. -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 07-03-2005 03:07 PM                       Good deal. Zero in on it. Manually relieving the gate pressure (maybe by the thickness of a dime) will let you know if you're on the right track with the ones you suspect are too close.  |  IP: Logged

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