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Author Topic: ORC Rectifier only putting out 40Amps Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-28-2005 05:34 PM                        HELP! Ok, we rented an ORC Model RPS-X60. The rental house claims they had it hooked up in the shop and they could dial anywhere between 80A and 140A. When we got it on site and wired it up to our ORC lamphouse with a 4500 bulb, the most I could get out of this unit was 42Amps. The control only varies the amperage by a few amps. Our XeTron rectifier powers both lamphouse at 130A. The ORC powers both lamphouses at only 40A-42A. All three legs going into the ORC read 204v, 202v, 201v and 110vac on each leg to ground. The output reads 22vdc. Can there be an incompatibility between bulbs (or lamphouses) that great that it would not draw the proper amperage from the rectifier? The bulb number that the guy at the rental house was feeding and getting good amperage was had no M in the model number -- is that major difference? Is there some magic thing that we are not doing? Oh, there are jumpers above each input leg. I assume these are to match incoming voltage. They are not marked in any way. I don't like to assume and I don't want to "try" switching them in the hopes that this will make any difference. Any information on the jumper lugs? The rental guys have all gone home and only one left isn't familiar with the jumpers. Any help would be appreciated as we need to get this operational for THE SOUND OF MUSIC tomorrow night. The only alternative would be to see if we can rent an Eprad mutt to run on one projector, or barring that, mount everything on 6000 reels and have lots of intermissions which is not a pretty thing.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 07-28-2005 06:09 PM                        I am answering without benefit of any text. I do not think you have done anything wrong. The bulb lights and amperage is not too high. Your input voltage is a little low, but this is obviously not a problem lighting the bulb (no-load voltage). Translating this to "low-amps" would mean 120 rather than 135 amps. No more than that. Some of these old rectifiers had a toggle switch on the front near the current setting control labelled "low" or something like that. When in this position there is a radical reduction in operating current. Try that. Internal "straps": You have nothing to lose by trying the other posisiton. Remember these were made for 208-240 volt input. Again, you are toward the bottom of the range so changing the straps will either lower it some more or will raise it slightly. There is, of course, the possibility that something is not right, dislodged during transit. Good luck to you on this. Louis  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-28-2005 07:28 PM                     Are these the units that have Alumnium windings in the trannys? I can't remember which model rectumfryer that one was but the symptom was always low current. Tip: Use plenty of anti-oxide compound when repairing those alumnium to copper joints!! Dam those NYC rental houses..... They ALWAYS manage to dredge up some piece of crap to send out to you..... Thats about the same luck I've had with them years back . Mark  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-28-2005 10:59 PM                     ...course, 22vdc on a load IS quite low for a 4.5k bulb. So, if we do the P=IxE (the "pie") formula, you're only pushin 990w out of that bulb. Now...correct me here, but you're powering BOTH lamphouses from one rectifier? Ain't that just a bit too much to where as each lamphouse needs its own rectifier? I thought that each lamphouse needs it own rectifier. I though that there was no such thing in having two lamphouses sharing a rectifier - in which I can see the big problem with splitting the current between both lamphouses, whereas this rectifier is probably useable for only one lamphouse. With splitting the output, I can see why you are only getting 22vdc out, whereas one lamphouse would be the recommended 42vdc usage for such a bulb. INTERESTING...to say the least... -Monte  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-28-2005 11:03 PM                        Actually these guys are bending over backwards to help, if they ONLY knew what the problem is. This may help: Lamphouse: ORCON - XH-45C Rental Rectifier: ORC - RPS X60 Bulb: XM4500HS There is no reason under the sun why these would be inherently incompatible, eh? I am leaning to the idea that something crapped out in transit and the unit is just, as Mark so delicately put it, a dredged up piece of crap. ....although to tell you the truth, I am not laughing much at the moment. Have no idea if this has aluminum windings, but I am not about to rip this thing apart to make it work. They will have to send us another one tomorrow. Note: The Xetron is getting the same voltage as the rental ORC, so that tells me that our voltage should be ok. BUT the Xetron has 08AWG size cable feeding each leg where as the ORC has 12AGW/30Amp twist lock. This seems like a bottle-neck.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-29-2005 12:45 AM                     12-Gauge...ouch! That'sa bit too small, to say the least. Serious bit of resistance and causing the drop in voltage, I'd say. Even 2k Strong "switchers" receives 208vac feed through 8-Gauge wire with 40 amp breakers in the panels. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 07-29-2005 04:04 AM                       quote: Use plenty of anti-oxide compound when repairing those alumnium to copper joints!! I used to fix 'em with a special split bolt connector. I forget what it was made of (nickel?), but it was compatible with both al. and cu. conductors, and kept them mechanically separated so they wouldn't react. No more troubles.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-29-2005 08:40 AM                     Tim, Thanks for the tip on that one. I wasn't aware and apparently nopne of the "counter boys" at many electric supplies are either..... I think there is one pair of those running someplace in the Mountain states...... Mark  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-29-2005 11:01 AM                     Not seeing the unit and the connections in front of me I think there might be an issue with the control of the rectifier On some versions of that powersupply and lamphouse combo there was an option for it to run in standbye/simmer mode between reels and my hunch is the rectifier is sitting in standby mode with out being there that is a shot in the dark If a phase was missing there would be strobing  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 07-29-2005 12:25 PM                       Mark, if Louis B. sees this maybe he remembers what they were called. He told me about those connectors years ago.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-30-2005 01:11 PM                        Final result: We got to the point-of-no-return when the rental house ran out of patience when the producer asked them to send another rectifier since the one they sent didn't work. They said, the one they sent worked fine when it left the shop, so our people had to have "damaged" it in transit or when we hooked it up. That's when we went with plan B -- long play reels instead of 12 change-overs (SOUND OF MUSIC). I was able to get it all on 3 reels -- it was estar base; got the entire last 5 reels from Intermission on, on one 7000ft-er so stopping didn't even look like a mistake. I had them put splitters on the DC lines from the one good Xetron rectifer so that I could use both projectors. At the reel change, I just killed the rectifier, swapped the positive cables of the lamphouses, powered the rectifier back up and struck the other lamp. That took only maybe 15 seconds. I waited another 15 for the lamp and then rolled the next reel. It wasn't terrible. Fortunately the audience (4000 +) was with us the whole time the one change-over with that short black screen didn't seem to bother them at all. They were singing along, applauding wildly at almost everything, even the baron kissing Maria the nun got ooohs and aaaahs. It's a really fun venue, even with the technical shortcomings. However, here is a wrinkle that has come up with our one good rectifier Xetron, and it happened twice in the past, where the lamp will extinguish for a fraction of a second and then re-ignite immediately. It's so fast that I don't think the audience even notices it, but of course I did and looked to the most obvious -- the safety switches, especially the exhause vane switch because I had trouble with it before on that lamphouse that is feed from the Xetron. I cleaned and oiled the hinge and then last week it happened again. With all the drama around the IREM rectifer failure, I didn't get a chance to revisit that instantanious interruption problem. But low and behold, it happened again last night, twice but on both lamphouses which of course tells me the power interruption, however brief, is not a lamphouse issue, but a rectifier one. So, now I am worried. We have a film next week and only ONE rectifier. Last night over the course of a 3 hour film, the interruption, albeit brief, happened two times. Should I be worried? Or should I be VERY worried? Any ideas as to why a rectifier should or could have a spike (dip, actually) like that and recover without any other ill-effects? Oh -- interesting side note surrounding the IREM failure that I didn't mention: all while the first reel of the film was running, of a sudden a lighting instrument came up on stage to full - shining right on the screen. I asked what was going on --the lighting guy thought he had hit a fader on the lighting console with his arm. He didn't. A few seconds later the IREM started smoking and sparking. So, either we are looking at something the IREM did that caused the lighting console to freak, or it could be that Con Ed might have had a surge in the entire power system -- they were playing with the system all day because of the near-capacity power demand. I think they said they were doing rolling brownouts in various areas. Anyway, it I just thought I'd mention the thing with the lighting console because it adds mystery. Interesting to say the lest, eh? But any ideas on why a rectifier will cause the lamp to extinguish completely for a less than a second and then restore? To me loose connections seem to random to cause these momentary drops -- they are always the same duration -- a fraction of a second; loose or failing connections wouldn't be the same duration each time, or as absolute -- totally off for .2 seconds, the totally back on without flicker or evidence that something is intermittent.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-30-2005 03:39 PM                     Frank, It sounds to me like you should consider calling James Bond at Full Aperature Suystems in Chicago the next time you try to pull off a show..... I think your equipment is beyond ready to be retired. Mark  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 07-30-2005 04:21 PM                        1. Any power source problem (power company, etc.) 2. Internal to the IREM (Xetron): any large cable; any connection, large, also look very closely at the contactor. Sometimes prefailure, there is discoloration on the small plastic moving tabs that stick out of the top of the relay. You might tighten all terminals on this contactor as well. Good luck. Louis  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-30-2005 04:58 PM                     frank said "Final result: We got to the point-of-no-return when the rental house ran out of patience when the producer asked them to send another rectifier since the one they sent didn't work. They said, the one they sent worked fine when it left the shop, so our people had to have "damaged" it in transit or when we hooked it up." Why did you not have them come out and check it on site  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 07-30-2005 05:37 PM                     Another weak point on the IREM are the transformer winding to flexible cable connection which can burn or arc due to crimp connector failure...sometimes not obvious due to heat shrink covering the connection point. I am a great beliver of dual machine set ups for festivals which are becoming a rare feature in the fests in Miami...due to "costs" and other "perceived" hassles  |  IP: Logged

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