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Author Topic: LTI Xenons Hieu Trung Ngo Film Handler Posts: 16 From: Quincy, MA, USA Registered: Jul 2005 posted 08-12-2005 10:25 AM                     Just a quick question. My theatre just recently switched over to LTI Xenon bulbs from OSRAMS, apparently because of the price. AMC has told us that these bulbs function just as well, but I've noticed a significant drop in light quality, especially in our big houses which now use LTI helios lamps (4.2k), they used to be OSRAM 7ks (we actually got new lenses for the big houses because there was such poor light output). I also find that these bulbs get dim a lot faster than the OSRAMs do. Is there any way to get better performance out of these bulbs?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-12-2005 11:21 AM                     We have not had alot of premature failures of the regular LTI lamps but have not heard good things about the Helios yet. If your employer is interested in putting on the best quality show they would be using Christie Lamps but thats a far fetched dream isn't it....... Mark  |  IP: Logged Hieu Trung Ngo Film Handler Posts: 16 From: Quincy, MA, USA Registered: Jul 2005 posted 08-12-2005 11:33 AM                     yeah it is a dream, we haven't had any failures per se, its just the light output is not great, seems very dim for a bulb with only 1000 hours on it, which in my eyes is pretty much a failure. any suggestions on better performance?  |  IP: Logged Heath Dutton Film Handler Posts: 37 From: Montgomery, Alabama / United States of America Registered: Jul 2005 posted 08-12-2005 01:00 PM                     Thats a bummer... I haven't had experience with LTI, but unfortunately I've had to stretch Osrams out to the limit. Even so a bulb of that wattage should probably be replaced after 1000 hours. Sounds like if you buy LTI, you might have to replace more often, and in the end you might not be saving much money. You could try rotating the bulbs more frequently, doing quarter turns instead of half (if it's horizontal mount). It's safer than bumping up the voltage and can extend the life a good bit.  |  IP: Logged Hieu Trung Ngo Film Handler Posts: 16 From: Quincy, MA, USA Registered: Jul 2005 posted 08-12-2005 01:10 PM                     sorry i should've been more clear, its not the 4.2ks that are dim after 1000 its the 3ks.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-12-2005 02:18 PM                     What lamphouse do you have? Some lamphouses will be able to burn bulbs longer than others. The *magic combination* for incredible lamp life is pretty well agreed upon these forums of a Christie bulb in a Christie lamphouse. In less than 2 years of running, the Christie lamphouse burning Christie bulbs beats out a Strong (and other lamphouses) hands down in terms of bulb AND equipment cost, even though the Christie lamphouse will have cost a little more money to purchase initially. Anyone doing their research wouldn't put any other console in a new complex if $$$ is an issue. Still though let's say you have a Strong lamphouse. Even though you won't be able to get the amazing amount of hours burning a Christie bulb in there as if you were burning a Christie bulb in a Christie lamphouse, that bulb in a Strong lamphouse will still outlast all other bulb brands. So even though the bulb costs more money to purchase, if the math is done taking into fact the amount of usable hours it is capable of, the Christie comes out way ahead in price AND performance. Bottom line, there just isn't a "cheaper" bulb out there than a Christie, assuming you do the math as to how many hours you can get off of it vs. just basing the choice on price alone. During construction, there is also no better choice for a lamphouse, as even off-brand bulbs get better life in a Christie lamphouse.  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 08-12-2005 03:39 PM                     LTI have consistently proven themselves to be poor over here. In any lamphouse. Thay have a nasty habit of exploding and taking mirrors with them, that's assuming you can get them to fit int eh first place. I've seen plenty of them with bad manufacturing tolerances so they don't fit lampholders properly. They aren't particularly cheap either, the price difference between LTI and the same spec Osram is miniscule, and more than dissapears when you factor in lamp life and the odd mirror. [ 08-14-2005, 04:54 AM: Message edited by: Pete Naples ]  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-12-2005 04:40 PM                     I dunno Brad...I have a plex of all Strongs (lamphouses) running Christie lamps and they all get 2-4X the rated life out of them...that is better than 6000 hours on a 2K and 3000-5000 hours on a 3K. I have an 8-plex with Xetron consoles where they routinely get 6000 hours on their 2Ks and I just yanked one with 9000 hours on it. I think the key was the Christie lamps.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-12-2005 07:44 PM                     quote: Steve Guttag I think the key was the Christie lamps. Steve, You hit the nail on the head. Any exhibitor thats not smart enough to buy the longest lasting lamp is just a really stupid exhibitor. Here they are transfixed on the initial lamp cost and not the operating cost per hour which with Chrustie lamps is rediclously low. We have several locations that typically run their Christie 2k's past 10K hours. I would attribute that to the Christie lamps AND the hurricane force blowers that I always spec in. quote: Brad Miller Anyone doing their research wouldn't put any other console in a new complex if $$$ is an issue. Brad, Is absolutely correct. The 10K plus hours I see consistantly are from Christie consoles and lamphouses. Most of our customers don't run their lamps that long but 6K hours is typical for most of them. I just don't see that happenning with Strong equipment, the cooling in them is very deficient. I don't blame that on the switching supplies as we have switchers running Christe lamphouses and easily get 6K hours from them. LTI 2kw lamp, 450.00 purchase price getting 2000 hours life typical = .225 lamp cost per hour. Christie 2kw lamp, 525.00 purchase price getting 6k hours typical =.0875 per hour lamp cost. Anyone not buying a Christie lamps(or installing hurricane force blowers) is just plain stipid Mark  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 08-12-2005 08:20 PM                        Steve - do you have any experience with running lamps in Kinoton lamphouses for such extended periods of time? I don't, because in the companies that I worked for in Germany, it was iron policy to change the lamps after 150% of the nominal life span of the lamp, no matter what it looked like.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-12-2005 09:46 PM                     I do indeed have Christie lamps running in Kinoton brand lamphouses. Unfortunately for most longevity purposes, these are in screening rooms and often their first lamp might be their last lamp for a decade! However...CXL-20SC, CXL-30SC and CXL-40SC I have in running in day, in, day out are doing very well. The CXL-50SC isn't doing too well but it is a more recent lamp from Christie...the CXL-60SC also is a bit hit and miss. Mind you, the flicker I'm seeing on the 5 and 6Ks are happening right from the get-go, not a premature darkening or a developed flicker. With Kinoton, they normally have one use their smaller lamphouse for 2KW and use the super-short 2KW xenon lamp that is based on the 1600HS watt lamp package. I can't recommend enough against this...I always use the larger lamphouse (better cooling) and use the larger 2000-watt lamp that is based on the 2500 lamp package. Furthermore, your choice of lamps in that tiny 2KW are very limited. There is OSRAM's 2000W/SHSC, Ushio's UXL-21SCB, LTI's 2000SCSB and ASL's XM2000-27HS (Superior Quartz has talked abotu offering the size as an over-rated 1600 watt, I don't know if they ever did). Note, Christie does not offer the lamp size even though Ushio does (their parent company). In the larger short arc lamp, just about everyone, including Christie has an equivalent of the CXL-20SC. I've powered the Kinoton lamphouses running Christie lamps with Strong switchers (up to 1.6K), Christie CCX series rectifiers, IREM's N3 series and in DLP situations, IREMs switchers. I've had reasonable results from all. Again, my Kinoton installations are all in screening rooms or special venue (with the AFI/Silver being the most main-stream in that they run daily). In conventional theatres, most of ours are Strongs and the Christie lamps are doing phenominal. About the only complaint we get from time to time, regardless of lamphouse, is a hard to strike lamp (takes many strikes but once lit, runs fine). For whatever it is worth, the Kinotons seem to have fewer hard to strike complaints but I've had it with them too on a set of CXL-30SCs with Christie power.  |  IP: Logged Hieu Trung Ngo Film Handler Posts: 16 From: Quincy, MA, USA Registered: Jul 2005 posted 08-12-2005 10:14 PM                     Hey Brad, We do have Strong consoles (Highlight II), and i totally agree with what you're saying about the LTIs not being "cheaper" because of their short life, I just wish that AMC would see things the same way and just get us a quality bulb. The one thing I was really confused about was switching the 7k osrams for 4.2k LTIs, i'm not sure why they actually thought we would get the same light output......anyone have an answer for this?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-12-2005 10:44 PM                     Having never personally tested one of these magic 4.2K bulbs side by side, I can't honestly say, but it sure sounds like bullshit to me. (Especially since everyone I know who has tried them reported worse light output.) Has anyone actually done comparisons with a brand new 7K regular bulb vs. a brand new 4.2K magic bulb?  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 08-12-2005 11:01 PM                        Where is the position of the plasma ball in relation to the 7k lamps? Is it possible that in these test installations the lamp wasn't in the right position? Can the 4.2k simply take the place of a 7k or do you need spacers?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-13-2005 12:12 AM                     I'm inclined to believe that the alleged improved light with the Helos version of the LTI lamps is probably based on particular reflectors rather than a universal truth. Xenon lamp design seems to be part art, part voo-doo and part enigineering. Some lamps put out a relatively steady light output from beginning to end (with a little bit of fall off in the first 100 hours or so), some seem to just tank with each hour...some strike easy, some strike hard...they play with electrode design, shape, gaps, flutes, supports....you name it, some lamp manufacturer has tried to fiddle with it. ORC lamps had this weird pulsation to them...why? Couldn't tell you it was just there. Christie lamps stay clear even after thousands of hours...why? I guess they use purer materials and assemble them in a cleaner fashion than others. I seem to recall that Strong has a particular reflector they make for the Highlight IIa that works well with the LTI Helos series...you'd have to ask them about it though (we just use the separates...Super Lume-X and Ultra-80).  |  IP: Logged

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