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Author Topic: Troubles with XD1O correctly pulsing CP45. Brad Allen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 688 From: Evansville, IN, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 10-16-2005 06:23 PM                     Two Xd10's married with CP45's. Both having same issue's. Automation is setup to pulse the CP-45 to SR when changeover opens. Then as the theory goes, the XD10 should pulse the CP45 to Aux2 as needed. Reason for setting up this way was so that there wouldn't be silence on the rare occasion that the first trailer to hit the screen didn't have an accompanied DTS track. The user's tell me that the XD10 is not reliably switching the CP-45 to Aux 2 at show start. And even if they wait until another trailer goes through, it still doesn't switch. Should the automation be setup to pulse the Cp-45 to Aux2 instead of to SR? Is there something in the way they are using leaders that could cause the XD-10 to not properly "sense" the time code in correct time period?  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-16-2005 07:52 PM                     Usually processors are setup for default "optical" (Mono,"A", or "SR") at opening, then if it senses a pulse from the digital processor,it should swing to the "AUX" number assigned to that target. Automation controls all of this factor at startup, so wonder if your automation setup has something turned around(wiring, DIP switches, et.al.), or programming lost inside the automation to cause AUX to open up instead of "Optical". CPA-10's, CNA-XXX series have these controls for sound placement-if you have thse STRONG automations. I remember when DTS first came out in the early to mid 90's, DTS came out with the instruction in the Caddy carriers, that if the timecode was detected with the correct discs in the drives before automation pulsed the processor to accept the timecode, that the processor would freeze up. Thus, a longer bit of straight black leader was necessary to delay the timecode read from the film until the automation had completed its pulse to sound changeover. Easy trick was for me, was to adjust the changeover pulse time to make it shorter, so the dowser was open before the timecode entered the reader. Thus, when building up prints, organize the trailers to the trailer discs so the first trailer isn't in DTS and where the others will play in DTS. This usually took care of this problem quite readilly. ..or just say "hooey" to the trailer discs in a whole-which was a common practice to avoid this problem. -Monte [ 10-16-2005, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]  |  IP: Logged Brad Allen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 688 From: Evansville, IN, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 10-16-2005 11:24 PM                     Monte, one of us is confused. Currently, the automation does pulse the processor into optical SR at changeover open. But the processor doesn't always switch to Aux2 (Digital) when the XD10 should be telling it to do so. Oh wait, a light just came on. What your saying is maybe they need to have more black leader run threw the projector after the optical is pulsed? Maybe the time code is hitting at the same time or there about as the automation is pulsing to SR. More lights just came on Maybe the automation is pulsing to SR AFTER the time code has hit, and that's why it never switches to digital, the XD10 already "thinks" that it has switched the processor to Digital. Mmmmmm. Thanks Monte.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-17-2005 02:31 AM                     BINGO! This is one major weakness with the DTS units (from the DTS-6 to the XD-10) is that the protocol of switching from optical to digital must be in a certain order of command, or it will not function normally. (On <START> a pulse from automation to begin the assigned sound processing, which is the default optical, then the player receiving the timecode pulses the processor to switch to AUX to receive analog sound information from the player) Good luck on this one. Glad to help you out. - Monte  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-17-2005 09:24 PM                     Monte said "BINGO! This is one major weakness with the DTS units (from the DTS-6 to the XD-10) is that the protocol of switching from optical to digital must be in a certain order of command, or it will not function normally." The processor responds to the last command it recieves so I don't see that as a weakness on DTS 's part at all  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-17-2005 09:36 PM                     Geez...it sounds like I should bring back my MDI500...It was a gizmo that plugged into the automation connector of a CP500 (essentially the same pin out as the newer processors)...it had 4 relays on it such that if DTS had already gone "Digital" then any pulse from the automation (other than non-sync) resulted in a "digital" pulse...as such, the DTS never got out of sequence. You could prioritize any format, as I recall so that it, like Non-Sync could be selected, even if DTS had wanted to switch to digital.  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 10-17-2005 11:29 PM                     Brad, you say that the automation hits the "show start" cue, this problem occurs, and your employees wait for another trailer to run through, still awaiting the XD-10 to kick into digital. If your automation is operating on a three cue system, starting with the first cue as the start button after threading, then you WOULD want the CP-45 to first pulse into SR, as a rule. Now, if you receive the DTS discs filled with loud trailers (and you choose to use said discs) you should have your employees press Aux 2 after the changeover if the XD-10 registers "digital" for the first trailer. If the first trailer is not on the trailer disc, the CP-45 will be in SR and the XD-10 ought to pulse the CP when it finally receives timecode for a trailer on the disc. If you don't use the trailer discs, and only the trailers on the feature discs play in digital, your employees ought not need to press anything, if correctly installed, the XD-10 should pulse the CP-45 to the correct AUX input when digital is acquired. Hence the drop out switching to SR when time code goes to shit. The XD-10's that I have seen in operation will not freeze up as a result of premature timecode (say, as the first trailer passes through the penthouse, before the changeover). It sounds like a fault in the XD-10 or something is awry with the wiring of the automation. I run a 6AD now, I aint lovin' it, but its done the best it can.  |  IP: Logged Brad Allen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 688 From: Evansville, IN, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 10-18-2005 02:47 PM                     Thanks all. It looks like "sometimes" the projectionist was getting overzealous when threading, and wasn't' always threading up to the correct point on the leader. Thus the time code was hitting the reader prior to the automation pulsing to SR as I had suspected. So, XD10 "thought" it had pulsed to digital, which it had, but the automation had other ideas and pulsed back to SR after the XD10 had pulsed to Digital. That explains why I never had the problem occur anytime I checked things over. We will see if the hand slap administered cures the problem or not.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 10-18-2005 03:59 PM                        The evilness of count down based automations strikes again. A well used Warehouse corn broom to the head should fix that problem. Don't bother with a Parlor broom though, it won't work.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-18-2005 04:06 PM                     ..why I love the Christie 3Q automation -a cue based automation...-Monte  |  IP: Logged Brad Allen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 688 From: Evansville, IN, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 10-21-2005 04:11 PM                     I just gleaned from one of the DTS engineers, that the XD-10 has the ability to "see" what status the Cp-45 is in with the addition of a cable between the two. There are two modes that do this, the Auto-Switch Mode, and the Preselect Mode. Makes the XD10 work similar to the way a Dolby DA20 SRD players work if they are set to auto-digital. Tell me what I'm missing here, why couldn't I just change the time of the SR pulse to the same time as motor start? The LED's don't come on until douser open. I have a nice supply of well used corn brooms.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 10-21-2005 05:35 PM                        For starters, you'll have one nice boom when the LED comes unless you've got some totally blacked out leader.  |  IP: Logged Brad Allen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 688 From: Evansville, IN, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 10-21-2005 05:46 PM                     The CE reverse readers in use supposedly have "thumpless" turn on. I'll have to try it out.  |  IP: Logged

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