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Author Topic: But the film touches the floor anyways.... Andrew McCrea Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 645 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Nov 2000 posted 11-21-2005 07:25 PM                        Hey Everyone, Been working a lot lately and finally had a chance to get back on the site. We all know that film + floor = bad. The answer may be very simple, but here's my question: I've noticed that no matter how hard I try to keep the film off the floor, when the tail runs through the projector and the platter takes up the rest just before it shuts down, ready to be threaded for the next show, the platter pulls the film from the lower projector roller, and quickly sweeps it across the floor. Is the anyway to prevent the platter from doing this? Is there anyway to make sure the film never touches the floor? The platter in question is the Strong/Potts platters, older models, some with switches, others self-calibrating. We have a mixed bag at this theatre. Thanks!  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-21-2005 09:00 PM                     If your automation is programmable you could re-program it to stop at the last cue instead of doing a runout. Something like running in intermission mode. This way the film will stop in the machine and you could then remove the film yourself. The other obvious option is to eliminate the booth floors all together! Ok, that won't work... but try the idea above. Mark  |  IP: Logged Andrew McCrea Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 645 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Nov 2000 posted 11-21-2005 09:18 PM                        Thanks, Mark.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-21-2005 09:24 PM                     Assuming you are adding plenty of EXTRA tail leader to the print, don't worry about the last couple of feet hitting the floor. At that point your movie is over and there should be 30-50 feet of "junk film" to protect the end of the movie, so even as the dirt migrates from layer to layer, unless you are running that print for a long time, it will never affect the actual movie. The issue of the floor is the LEADER. With the tail scenario above, big deal if the last few feet have dirt on it and that dirt gets into the projector. The projector is going (or should) be cleaned before every thread anyway. The problem is with people letting the head leader hit the floor, because as the dirt migrates from layer to layer, it gets onto the first trailer (or more) and then you have that dirt in the projector to muck up your print. (Plus it is quite unprofessional to hit the screen with a dirty trailer or ad. That's the customer's first impression of your presentation.)  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-22-2005 12:42 AM                     ....why it's a good idea to learn how to learn how to "reverse lace" the machine. This way, the head leads never touch the floor. It takes a bit of time to master the "reverse lace", but once you get the hang of it, it's like learning how to tie your shoelaces again-but in a different way. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-22-2005 01:40 AM                        I do what Mark suggests -- I put a piece of junk film on the end, with the "intermission cue" at the head of the junk film. The machine stops with the last few feet of film still in the projector. When I get to the booth, I just motor that last film out, and it's easy to spin it onto the platter quickly and it doesn't hit the floor (well, at least it doesn't lay there and collect dust!)  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-22-2005 06:27 AM                        Even with extra tail on a platter, the tail drags on the floor, picking up dust & dirt, then transfers it to the rollers all the rollers on the platter on its way to the takeup deck. Then on the next run, it drags through every *other* roller & surface in the platter brain, up & down the platter tree, wall-mounted rollers, along every inch of the film path through the projector, rollers on the cue detector, & bottom reel arm, leaving behind the crap it didn't transfer to the rollers, etc. earlier. Then it does again, & again. I keep the film off the floor when threading, but Andrew is right: inherently, as platters drag film on the floor at the end of the show, it's inescapable that the system dirties the film & film path. You can keep the film off the floor running reels, but not a platter. And that doesn't change the reason for keeping the film off the floor.  |  IP: Logged Paul Gordon Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 580 From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Registered: Aug 2005 posted 11-22-2005 06:35 AM                        Why does everyone use platters anyway? wouldn't a tower be a better system? I'm still doing change overs but our theatre is thinking of getting a tower for longer running films... -paul  |  IP: Logged John Koutsoumis Master Film Handler Posts: 261 From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Registered: Aug 2003 posted 11-22-2005 06:59 AM                     Paul, better to stay with the changeovers (2000's ). Don't tower systems require rewinding of the reel? I don't think they would be practical in todays Megaplexes. Platters are fine as long as the equipment and operation is tops.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-22-2005 07:02 AM                     Well certainly running reels is the proper solution here...film never hit the floor! Another advantage of the "intermission" type cue is that you know it took when you arrive to rethread the machine. Kinoton ST200E platters have a "tail wind" mode when the tail runs through...it goes into high speed for several seconds just to pull the tail through quickly.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 11-22-2005 08:00 AM                        Yes, lots of tail leader will help keep the dirt from getting onto the final minutes of the film. In actuality, an old trailer on Kodak VISION Color Print Film is likely a better choice than most leaders that are sold, as the Kodak VISION Color Print Film has a conductive backing layer that helps reduce any static charging that attracts and holds dirt to the film. Most leaders do NOT have static protection, and can develop a significant static charge that will attract dirt. If you use an old 2383 trailer for tail leader, just be sure to cue off the light and sound at the end of the feature credits. Also, keep the floor CLEAN (duh!). Use a central vacuum system or damp mop the floor frequently to keep it free of dust and debris that will get on the film.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-22-2005 08:09 AM                     quote: Well certainly running reels is the proper solution here...film never hit the floor! Only if you've got cans on the machnes! Otherwise flop da flop da flop da flop till the motor stops... and it also flops against the oily bottom of the sound reproducer.... So reels really don't qualify without mags as they too let the film flop on the floor. Mark  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 11-22-2005 09:13 AM                        Actually a system of support rollers (a few on top; many on bottom) would also keep the tail off the floor on a platter.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-22-2005 07:25 PM                     Nonsense Mark...no need to have the tail go flopping on the floor...a proper changeover booth in this Century should certainly have Kinoton FP 30ER machines (or ES)...film stops, rewinds and is ready for the next show...up to 12K per machine too for even the longest of the Kevin Costner flicks.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-22-2005 08:00 PM                        Of course, with 14.5" diameter reels, only about 45" of film is exposed at the tail, versus several feet with a platter. And, yes, it _is_ possible to run a platter house and not let the film touch the floor with a little bit of effort. I usually try to grab the tail as it comes out of the projector and guide it by hand to the platter tree. Obviously, this isn't practical on a large scale, but is entirely do-able in a single/twin/triple house. John--will Kodak print stock retain its anti-static properties if the image is bleached out and the film then rinsed in Photo-Flo? I don't use film with picture as tail leader due to the possibility that it might confuse someone and/or be projected on the screen at some point.  |  IP: Logged

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