my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Help identify these intermittent parts (Page 1)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Author Topic: Help identify these intermittent parts Marc Hansen Film Handler Posts: 93 From: Seattle, WA, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 11-27-2005 10:08 AM                     The boxes they were in just says Simplex Aprox Dimensions Cam Shaft Diameter .312 Shaft Length 4.360 Overall Length 4.765 Cam Diameter .932 Pin Diameter .100 Star Shaft Diameter .312 Shaft Length 3.750 Overall Length 4.067 Thanks  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-27-2005 12:12 PM                     Interesting. Don't really understand your question unless you're trying to find which machine this cam and starwheel belong to. Looks like they belong to the "XL" family of Simplex. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Marc Hansen Film Handler Posts: 93 From: Seattle, WA, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 11-27-2005 12:26 PM                     That's exactly what I am trying to find out. I got them with some other stuff I bought at an auction and I can't sell them if I don't know what they fit. When I know I'll put them in the wanted/for sale forum. thanks BTW: These are Brand New  |  IP: Logged Bob Koch Expert Film Handler Posts: 183 From: williams ca Registered: Nov 2001 posted 11-27-2005 01:18 PM                     I`ll go with Monte. If they are,indeed,Simplex they would have to be XL.Supers and E7 had a flywheel gear that drove the cam so the cam shaft would be much shorter  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-27-2005 04:51 PM                     The Starwheel has the indentation on the end of the shaft for the lock collar and the Cam has the double threaded holes to mount the geared flywheel. These clues which drew my conclusion on which assembly needed these parts - since I've rebuilt a good 5 of the intermittents. -thx Monte  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-27-2005 05:46 PM                     Also the sprocket attaches with a nut and bolt the Super and E7 were typically a pair of taper pins  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 11-27-2005 06:17 PM                     Gord I have seen Supers and E-7's equipped with bolt-on sprockets. And one of mine had a VKF on it. Cheers K  |  IP: Logged Marc Hansen Film Handler Posts: 93 From: Seattle, WA, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 11-27-2005 06:45 PM                     The holes in the cam are threaded, looks like 8-32. The hole in the star is straight and approx .153. Marc  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-27-2005 08:36 PM                     I'll second, third and forth what everyone else has said... Definately X-L star and cam... value if unused is about 500.00 US for both pieces.... In other words don't give em away. Those are also much better quality than whats being made today... Mark  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 11-27-2005 11:51 PM                     Hi Mark As a machinist, I fail to see what is sooooo difficult about making a star and cam. I would say that the biggest challenge is having a jig-grinder to grind the star. Actually, it is some pretty straigt-forward machining. Yes, making a one-off pair would be very time consuming, but with a mass production set-up, not necessarily CNC, production could be relatively quick. What are the part tolorances?: +/- 0.0002 in? Pretty standard for grinding ops.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-28-2005 12:57 AM                     Hmmmm..pretty close tolerances, fine tooth balancing of the cam, with these two picts of the pin of the cam entering the starwheel, and the clearance of cam and starwheel...I would say...Mark can fill in the blank spaces of actual tolerance measurements. This, below, is what happens when units aren't getting the continual proper oil feed to the intermittent assembly and the starwheel shaft decides to sieze inside the nose cover: one can see the "ring of steel" that was cut between the first and second spiral that the iron from the cover piece decided to cut when the iron got a bit hot from no lubrication. Definitely constituted a new cover,gasket cam, starwheel and three fibre gears that were stripped when the unit seized. ..twas a bit messy to clean up all of that shredded gears inside the geartrain, which practically taking out the vertical shaft assembly, cleaning out the sump and replacing those gears that where shredded from their metal counterparts. After all was cleaned up and unit rebuilt, that black case "XL" sounded better and quieter than before this all happened. ....................................................... The first time I did an intermittent rebuild was on a Super with those taper pins. Had to replace the sprocket-inner workings were fine. Sprocket's teeth were shot and sprocket was already reversed so I couldn't use the back side of the teeth. It was just a bit of a trick to figure out which side of the sprocket's shaft holes are smaller so the pins could be entered in on the reverse (larger hole) side. Then, to make sure that the pins are seated equally before reassembling and setting the starwheel with the cam so the pin of the cam was entering into the starwheel at an exact moment-not before or afterwards. Afterwards, that Super ran pretty smooth-real good for a 20 year old kid that didn't have the foggiest on what he was doing except by reading the parts manual on how stuff was put together. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Robert Throop Master Film Handler Posts: 412 From: Vernon, NY USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-28-2005 03:19 AM                     [QUOTE]Also the sprocket attaches with a nut and bolt the Super and E7 were typically a pair of taper pins E7's always used a nut and bolt to fasten the sprocket. Bob  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-28-2005 08:39 AM                     quote: Will Kutler As a machinist, I fail to see what is sooooo difficult about making a star and cam. I would say that the biggest challenge is having a jig-grinder to grind the star. Actually, it is some pretty straigt-forward machining. Actually that is a good question for Don Markus at Wolk! When Don bought Wolk one of the first things he wanted to do was make stars and cams. Didn't work out and I don't know the exact reasons although he siad there were too many reject parts... so You should call and talk to him about it. Tolerances on stars and cams are typically better than .0001 and Phillips kept tolerances to 1 micron on their stars and cams. If you think you can make them I'm sure that LaVezzi would hire you one the spot, but then there are only just a few people working there(for a very long time) that can make these parts without there being alot of reject parts...... Its hardly what I would call a normal grinding operation...... quote: Monte L Fullmer Definitely constituted a new cover,gasket cam, starwheel and three fibre gears that were stripped when the unit seized. Monte, Not necessarily.... The cover is rarely a loss as it can be lapped out clean. Even stars that have seized can be polished and saved and a few more years gotten out of them, have done that many times.... its the most common place for an X-L star to seize up. Polishing the star is on a one by one case as long as none of the radius's are bent. Its simply a matter of dealing with a supply dealer that knows what he is doing vs. one that doesn't or thinks he does...... false economy is for the fools. Mark  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 11-28-2005 01:23 PM                     Monte +/- 0.0002 is a pretty standandard grinding tolorance....nothing special about that. Keeping in mind that the tighter the tolorance the more $$ the part. Now if stars and cams are ground to the 0.00000 (fifth decimal place) we can start having problems. Those problems can include tolorance change due to the material used as well as due to the operating enviornment. As far as "balancing" the star and cam, on those I have seen at least, there was no indication of any special balancing, like what is done with material removal on the intermittent flywheel. [ 11-28-2005, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Will Kutler ]  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-28-2005 02:08 PM                     quote: Mark Gulbrandsen Polishing the star is on a one by one case as long as none of the radius's are bent Yes, and I agree totally with this. But unfortunately where I don't have the equipment available to test and redo such measures, it was just the obvious route for replacement and get this XL machine up and running. Owner didn't care about expences - just for me to get the machine fixed pronto since revenue was being lost with that house down. thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.