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Author Topic: Film is pulling projector out of frame Dan Chilton Expert Film Handler Posts: 191 From: Springfield, MO Registered: Mar 2004 posted 12-20-2005 09:42 PM                        I noticed this starting last week: throughout the course of a film, the framing slowing pulls itself down. It wasn't too bad last week (if the film started with the FRAME letters perfectly horizontal, it would end with a 10 degree CCW rotation). However, during tonight's film, I started with the FRAME nob perfectly horizontal, and when I checked on the film 30 minutes later it was nearly 45 degrees CCW out of frame! I don't know how the audience didn't pick up on that! I corrected the framing, but as I did I could feel the film trying to pull the framing back down. What gives? Or more importantly, what do I need to tighten to correct this? I'm on a Simplex XL, btw.  |  IP: Logged Olivia Coleman Film Handler Posts: 53 From: Bend, OR USA Registered: Jun 2005 posted 12-20-2005 09:52 PM                        My stab in the dark would be something with the intermittent shoe...  |  IP: Logged Dan Chilton Expert Film Handler Posts: 191 From: Springfield, MO Registered: Mar 2004 posted 12-20-2005 09:55 PM                        Anyway to test that?  |  IP: Logged Olivia Coleman Film Handler Posts: 53 From: Bend, OR USA Registered: Jun 2005 posted 12-20-2005 10:12 PM                        Umm, I'm not sure... I would see what the tension is like... Do you have any jumping on screen at all? Or is it just a slow shift out of frame??? (I'm no tech, just using my own booth knowledge...) Oh... I thought of another suggestion: your intermittent may be be loose or almost done??? I'm really not sure about this one exactly...  |  IP: Logged Dan Chilton Expert Film Handler Posts: 191 From: Springfield, MO Registered: Mar 2004 posted 12-20-2005 10:17 PM                        No jumping on the screen. From all appearances it's a steady picture... only it's slowly, slowly creeping southward.  |  IP: Logged Olivia Coleman Film Handler Posts: 53 From: Bend, OR USA Registered: Jun 2005 posted 12-20-2005 10:18 PM                        Very strange... Check editted note on previous post...  |  IP: Logged Dan Chilton Expert Film Handler Posts: 191 From: Springfield, MO Registered: Mar 2004 posted 12-20-2005 10:27 PM                        I'll baby it for the last show and then call my tech tomorrow.  |  IP: Logged Olivia Coleman Film Handler Posts: 53 From: Bend, OR USA Registered: Jun 2005 posted 12-20-2005 10:28 PM                        Alrighty...  |  IP: Logged Dan Chilton Expert Film Handler Posts: 191 From: Springfield, MO Registered: Mar 2004 posted 12-20-2005 10:39 PM                        Thanks for you help Olivia! ALSO: I don't know if this has any relevancy, but the framing doesn't move when there's not any film running through the projector. When I flip on the manual power, the framing is as steady as a rock.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-20-2005 11:55 PM                     Sounds like gate tension is WAY too tight and pulling the assembly around. What kind of XL do you have -curved gate or straight gate? Newer models have an adjustment allen stop that loves to turn in after so many times the gate closes, thus putting more tension on the film than needed and causes the intermittent assembly to "pull" around due to so much tension and going out of frame. The allen stop screw is inboard below the aperture opening on the trap assembly. Proper adjustment is when the intermittent shoes on the gate just barely make full contact with the sprocket when gate is closed with film loaded. If the shoes looks like they want to "crawl" under the sprocket, the gate is closing way too tight. good luck - Monte  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-21-2005 12:59 AM                     The cause of this is 99% of the time from the little leaf springs that provide tension against the intermittent movement against the framing carriage becoming loose or broken. The framing will slowly just move itself out with time. Replacing the leaf springs cures the problem, I have run across this problem numerous times, this is the cause and fix. -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Dick Prather Master Film Handler Posts: 259 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-21-2005 01:08 AM                     That is a common problem on a X-L or Simplex 35 if the intermittent carrage becomes loose. Look in the X-L manual on page 1-22 of the green version. The P-1705 framing cam retainer plates have worn to a point were they need to be adjusted or one of the newer spring steel versions have broken or come loose. The combination of the retainer plates and the shutter compensator give enough tension to hold the framer in place. Adjusting or replacing the worn parts should correct this. Most people replace the both older plates with the newer spring ones. I sometimes use two on each side for better tension like they do in the 35/70 machine. Proper gate and intermittent shoe tension can also be checked. The back door needs to be removed and the intermittent removed to do this properly. Dick  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-21-2005 02:45 AM                     Thx for the help also on this for usually it was the excessive tightness of the trap and gate assembly that did it for me with my experiences with this. Need to work on a lot more "XL" machines that have problems...I work on ones that run very well.. lol. -monte  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 12-21-2005 05:03 AM                     Aaron is correct. I have run across this many times on the strong projector. It has always been the spring.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-21-2005 05:09 AM                     Well we assume that he has Simplex's but I didn't read that in any of the posts. Framing drift can also happen to Century, Ballantyne, and others...... but we'll assume its Simplex. When you install the new springs in place of the old style clamp blocks and so you don't have to deal with removing the lower block which is difficult to get at because it is behind the gear sector on the carrige, just install two thicknesses of those springs in place of the upper or easy to get at block. This will effectively give you the correct amount of tension you need and you won't have to remove the carrage stopper screw and rotate the carrage off the intermediate framing gear, nor will U be fishing parts out of the oil sump. Also be ready with the proper size screw driver as the retaining screws can be a pain to crack loose... the screws have special flat heads to clear areas of the framing carrage as it rotates! quote: However, during tonight's film, I started with the FRAME nob perfectly horizontal, and when I checked on the film 30 minutes later it was nearly 45 degrees CCW out of frame! I don't know how the audience didn't pick up on that! Good projectionists don't rely on the audience to pick up on whats going wrong with any given presentation! They check frequently to be sure that nothing does go wrong. Mark  |  IP: Logged

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