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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Author
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Topic: White Christmas - is this a "t.v. print"?
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 12-27-2005 07:41 AM
Why in hell would Film's Inc want a 1.37 conversion for Rep houses? Unless they had no choice because Paramount only had the TV crap dupe negatives available to strike new prints. Makes no sense at all, and for Paramount to only have these versions available for distribution is a crime (not that this is a particularly favorite film of mine). I guess they think if an image comes on the screen and sound comes out of the speakers, that's good enuf. Ah yes, I forget, digital should fix all of this.
As for the sound....this is a real mystery because if this is merely a Perspecta sound conversion to Dolby, and since Perspecta sound is simply a mono track that was panned left and right via Perspecta trigger tones, then there shouldn't be the kind of variation between the two waveforms as we see there is in the scan. Making either of the two channels louder than the other, then you only get that track with more modulation, but the waveform will stay identical. Out of phase stuff that they want to come out of the surrounds would look identical, just offset slightly. In the scan, the waveform of the two channels look quite different which points to some remixing in of sound effects or other elements that were not in the original mix. Who knows what these people do when then decide they can make some extra cash on a classic. Seems they can't just let the movie stand on it's own merits, they don't seem to get it that the reason a classic is a classic, is because it's great just the way it was made and doesn't need to be messed around with.
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Stephen Furley
Film God
Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002
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posted 12-27-2005 09:23 AM
quote:
Perspecta could do more than just pan it's single channel.... the control tones could also be phase modulated during encoding creating a pseido stereo effect that was quite impressive. White Christmas was done this way. I've seen - heard reel-1 in true Perspecta decoded through an original tube unit that was restored by an engineer at Tektronix. The opening VV logo score in Perspecta was incredible!
Something like fifteen years ago I heard that there was a t least one print in circulation in this country, which still had the perspecta track on it. I don't know if thisis still the case, and, of course, at that time just about nowhere would have had working equipment to decode it. I've never heard 'White Christmas' in perspecta; I'd like to, but I've never heard of it being played that way in recent times. I have heard 'forbidden Planet' on an original Fairchild Integrator at the loew's Jersey in 2002, and the first few minutes of it, before I had to leave to catch my train to London at Bradford in 2004. This was with one of the modern cards in a CP-200. I've also heard various cartoons and a couple of clips, from what I'm not sure, through one of the cards, and a few other shorts and clips through the original Integrator at the Loew's. Many years ago I heard a few minutes of something, I can't remember what it was through an original Integrator in London, howevr, that unit was in poor condition, with lots of hum, and I think the filters may have been off, as well.
From the limited amount of material which I've been able to hear, my impression is that, at it's best, Perspecta could sound quite good, better than I expected, but not as good as a true 4-channel magnetic stereo system. One problem seems to be that a lot of what was produced was badly done, sounds like it was done cheaply and quickly, and it was also used on films for which it was not suitable; particularly cartoons with music.
When Perspecta died out it wasn't because it was replaced by something better; most films, in most cinemas were in simple Academy mono optical for another twenty years. Perspecta wasn't cheap to install, I seem to remember a price of something like $1000 for the Integrator and it's power supply, then there was the cost of the extra amplifiers, speakers, cabling etc. Of course, the prints wre much cheaper than 4-track mag ones.
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
There is/was a card available from Great Britian that would plug in place of the cat 150 in Dolby processirs that could decode Perspecta tones properly.... Last I heard it was about $600.00 U.S.
I believe there were two cards available; one I know nothing about, other than it could be used in a Dolby processor, with an adapter. I have one of the other cards; it was produced by Dion Hanson, previously with Dolby, now as far as I know on his own, and trading as 'Cineman'.
My main reason for buying this card was to listen to various samples of Perspecta film that I managed to borrow from various places. It has also been used once, with an actual audience, for a short demonstration. I wanted to use it another time, about two years ago, at an event at a London cinema, but was unable to do so, do to availablity of a print, but complications with rights, whith could not be sorted out in time.
The card replaces the Dolby Cat. 150 decoder, and can be used in any processor which takes that card; I've used it in a CP-65 and a CP-200.
Last year I lent the card to Peter Apruzzese, Director of Film Programming at the Layfatte Theatre in Suffern, NY. Peter wanted to use the card in a CP-50, with 'Forbidden Planet', but was not able to do so due to a technical problem which could not be resolved in time; I can't remember the details now, but it was very odd. Whether the card has developed a fault since I last used it, when it was fine (pun not intended), or whether it was due to an incompatibility with his CP-50, which he said had been heavily modified, I don't know.
I do not intend to use this card again in the foreseeable future; if anybody has access to any Perspecta film, and would like to try it, I could ask Peter to send it to them. Mark, when I bought the card the price was 300 pounds, so your figure of $600 isn't far out. It's a very well made card, and considering the very small quantity which must have been produced, I think that's very reasonable. Dion uses one of these cards himself at his 'Fantastic Formats' lecture, which he has given at various venues. I understand that one was also bought by somebody who was producing a DVD of a Japanese film which had a Perspecta track.
I don't know if this card is still avable. There have been suggestions of doing this by custom programming of the CP-650, but I haven't heard of anybody actually doing it.
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Bill Carter
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 162
From: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Registered: Sep 1999
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posted 12-27-2005 03:07 PM
That print was just here at the Heights Theater in Minneapolis. Direct comparison with some clips from an original Technicolor VV print prove that it is (rather severely) cropped, apparently from a TV element created on CRI stock. The print is grainy, with somewhat muted color. Not at all what you would expect from a Vista Vision neg.
It does carry a modern stereo track, which doesn't sound like a Perspecta conversion. It sounds like they merely "expanded" the mono sound by adding some muddy reverb/delay. Either that, or they re-recorded it in the bathroom. Same difference.
It appears to be true that this is the only print in "official" circulation (there may or may not be more than one, but they are all from this same printing), though Tech prints (with Perspecta) do survive in private hands.
It ran at The Heights in 1.66, though even that is a little too tight at times.
And, by the way, it was a 410-seat sellout, with people turned away.
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 12-28-2005 01:27 PM
quote: Bill Carter
And, by the way, it was a 410-seat sellout, with people turned away.
It's great to hear that a 51-year-old movie was able to draw that kind of crowd! That movie has been available on DVD for years, and gets lots of play on TV, so it would seem to refute the notion that it's impossible to get people to go to the theater once a movie is available for home viewing.
With some of the holiday-themed stinkers that have been released in the past couple of years, I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea for theaters to run prints of old holiday movies.
I would much rather see a (well-done) showing of "White Christmas" than so many of the supposed holiday films that have been released. Besides, right now, there are no movies playing that could be considered in the same ballpark as "White Christmas" or the other holiday classics. The Times Cinema here in Milwaukee was playing "It's a Wonderful Life" but that run ended on Monday, and I wasn't able to organize a family outing before then.
Sure, something like "White Christmas" probably wouldn't be able to maintain high attendance, but I can't imagine that a series of the holiday classics would do any worse than "The Ringer" or other garbage that gets pushed onto celluloid once in a while.
Is there an online source of which movies are available for theatrical showings? I'd be curious to see which are available and how much it would cost to run them.
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