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Author Topic: Print life on projection - how many runs? Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 02-14-2006 09:14 AM                     Does anyone have an official figure as to how many runs a 35mm print can take without any degradation, under optimum conditions (clean room, expert handling, etc.)? I've a feeling this has come up before but haven't been able to find anything in the archives. Many thanks.  |  IP: Logged Jeff Taylor Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 601 From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY Registered: Apr 2000 posted 02-14-2006 09:38 AM                     I think it has been discussed, and some of the guys from the road show days talked of running a single print for well over a year with good handling.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 02-14-2006 12:24 PM                        I know a theatre that ran Somkey & the Bandit for 58 weeks, 5 shows/day=2030 showings. The print looked to have about 200 showings on it to start. Grand total: 2230 runs, no scratches, but the color was faded and the sprocket holes were slightly elongated at the ship out. I was always told that 300-400 runs is considered "the life" of a print. Ref the post above: road show films usually were quite long and generally only ran twice daily. (2 pm & 8 pm.) Louis  |  IP: Logged Robert Throop Master Film Handler Posts: 412 From: Vernon, NY USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-14-2006 12:33 PM                     quote: Louis Bornwasser Grand total: 2230 runs, no scratches Louis-Was that reels or platter? Kallet's Shoppngtown theatre in Syracuse ran one 70mm print of "Sound of Music" for 76 weeks. That's about 900 runs. The print looked new when it left. Bob  |  IP: Logged Rick Raskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1100 From: Manassas Virginia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 02-14-2006 01:01 PM                     One of the projectionists at Colonial Williamsburg once told me they would replace a print after 2000 runs. He said that more often than not the old print was still in excellent shape.  |  IP: Logged Timothy Eiler Expert Film Handler Posts: 126 From: Litchfield , Minnesota, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 02-14-2006 01:35 PM                        Ran 49 Weeks of E.T. 5 shows Daily With the first 3 weeks we interlocked between 2 auditoriums,ran early shows and Midnight shows Fri.,Sat. Same Print Through the entire Run off a Platter. That Print at the end of its run was in much better shape that a lot of prints I get 2-3 weeks off the break today.  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 02-14-2006 08:29 PM                     Years ago in changeover days My Fair Lady ran reel to reel at the long since departed Royal Cinema in Perth West Australia for over a year doing something like 3 or 4 sessions a day. The projectionist staff at the time prided themselves that they never had breakdown and had no film damage after all that time. Apparently the only evidence was a bit of "rain" as the cues were about to appear. I will check with one of those guys and post the exact figure of number of runs that film did and that was acetate film not poly well done guys. Lindsay  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-14-2006 08:59 PM                        I have heard those figures as well -- between 2000 and 2500, but again, that's with expert handling and under optimum conditions such no extremes, i.e., screen sizes that require the largest of light sources. If they could get those high numbers in the days of triacetate base, E-Z Fade Eastman dyes and no FilmGuard, it would be safe to say that today, given VKF sprocket design, advances in chemical treatments (ala FilmGuard) and Low Fade emulsions, we should be able to get lots more runs past what they could in previous decades, before a print would need to be retired.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-14-2006 09:22 PM                     Indeed Frank, I've yet to find a quantity of runs that shows any wear when properly handled and ran on well maintained projection equipment with an inline cleaner running FG...at least for 35mm and 5/70 prints.  |  IP: Logged David Kilderry Master Film Handler Posts: 355 From: Melbourne Australia Registered: Sep 1999 posted 02-14-2006 11:47 PM                        We ran Raiders 4 sessions per day every day for a year on the same print. It was a 70mm print run on doubled up spools ( 1 + 2, 3 + 4, 5 + 6). It looked and sounded good when we finished with it and I believe this print still exists here. The film ran for another 6 months in the same building in 35mm. 70mm prints will generally last longer as the raised mag tracks protect the picture area. With 35mm on spools or platter operation, about 6 months running at 5 session per day has been average in my experience -without film cleaners. This equates to about 900 runs. Most long runs before 1990 were of course 70mm prints, so it is difficult to find long running 35mm prints. A few I can recall were Airplane 18 months - 2 prints, Life Of Brian 12 months plus - 2 prints, Ruthless People 8 months, Crocodile Dundee 12 months plus - 2 prints, Pretty Woman 6 months - 2 prints. Generally we'd request a new print at the 6 month point due to crackle on the optical track (Dolby A) or in recent times digital track drop outs (Dolby Digital). It is almost academic now as the last long runs (5 months plus)I recall were Titanic and Matrix here. With film cleaners, wet or PTR, and correctly maintained equipment there is no reason why very long runs on a single print can not be achieved. David  |  IP: Logged John Koutsoumis Master Film Handler Posts: 261 From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Registered: Aug 2003 posted 02-15-2006 03:13 AM                     Not sure if it's the same 70mm print of "Raiders" that David screened but it's now badly faded. Hasn't been screened for a few years now. It used to get a run here and there at the Astor Theatre along with "Temple of Doom". The 70mm print of "Pink Floyd: The Wall" is in still good enough shape but it too has faded. Not sure where and how many runs it had originally.  |  IP: Logged David Kilderry Master Film Handler Posts: 355 From: Melbourne Australia Registered: Sep 1999 posted 02-15-2006 04:54 AM                        Hi John, We ran each of those shows at Greater Union if they are the original Melbourne prints. As stated Raiders ran for a year, 4 sessions per day. There are about 5 missing frames at the Harrison Ford v's German beside aircraft fight scene. This was a rewind error. The T.O.D. print had a few frames missing when the Prince comes down the steps for the first time at the Panquot Palace, it is just after a reel change. This was projectionist error, film slipped and jerked on feed and then bang! The poor relief projectionist almost fell in a heap when he relised that after over 1000 runs he was responsible for a join being made! These splices will tell you if they are the original prints we ran. TOD ran 6 months in 70mm. We also ran The Wall in 70mm, its season was less than 6 weeks in 70mm. It did however move to the old Valhalla in Richmond where it ran almost weekly for years. All of these prints would have been circuited around the state playing drive-ins and hardtops after we finished with them of course. Raiders was made just before the latest low fade stocks were introduced. I have seen it since and whilst it is clean, the colour is shot as you say. David  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 02-15-2006 09:10 AM                        Our run was 35mm platter....Christie AW-2 (referring to previous posting.)Louis  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 02-15-2006 11:31 AM                     We had an SR version of Big Fat Greek Wedding that ran for over 10 months without soundtrack or image wear of any kind. FG'd weekly & even survived some nasty threading by newbies and assistant managers. My boss had me break it down at the 6 month mark & reapply splice tape, but it actually didn't seem necessary.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 02-15-2006 03:12 PM                        So much for the Cinema TV claim of "no more damaged film." My experience with film damage is that it only happens in certain places and for very good reasons. I do attend many films locally (Louisville) and have never seen any noticeable film damage. I wonder if my experience is normal or if I live in a "special place." Louis  |  IP: Logged

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