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Author Topic: How fast are reels printed on high speed printers? Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-17-2006 07:02 PM                    And also, how fast do depot workers rewind reels on their rewind / benches?  |  IP: Logged David Graham Rose Expert Film Handler Posts: 187 From: Cambridge, UK Registered: Sep 2002 posted 03-18-2006 05:54 AM                     Greetings Very fast indeed. In some branches of Technicolor, film is printed at a rate approaching the speed of light, which is why the quality drops so dramatically. On an emergency print run of the last Star Wars, the panel printers were pressed into action at 1.5xspeed of light. What actually happened is the the printers actually began to run in reverse, and printed a mirror image of the film, thus causing projectionists here in the UK to have to lace up with the emulsion facing the lens. Good afternoon David  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 03-18-2006 08:19 AM                        I was once told that the London Technicolor lab has the capacity to produce a million feet of release print per day.  |  IP: Logged David Graham Rose Expert Film Handler Posts: 187 From: Cambridge, UK Registered: Sep 2002 posted 03-18-2006 08:27 AM                     True, but at what cost to quality? Why are so many SRD tracks failing in the UK on new release prints?  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-18-2006 11:34 AM                     How many machines do they have in that lab? If they had 100 machines, a million feet of film would only be 10,000 per. Not amazing. But if there were only two or three of them, that would be something to see. For three machines, that would be 63 miles for each.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-18-2006 01:21 PM                     Technicolor has 4 high speed printers and many other printers in their LA lab. Deluxe has 18 high speed printers (if I recall correctly) in their Toronto lab. I can't remember the specific numbers, but the term "damned fast" should suffice. The depot workers don't wind film at all. That's why they all use clip-together reels.  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-18-2006 02:16 PM                    Faster than one reel per minute do you think? If not, two minutes? Five? I guess I'm thinking of the distribution center workers not the depot workers. I thought I saw one of them rewinding a reel on one of your photos of the Technicolor warehouse.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-18-2006 02:24 PM                     That's the same place...and they were doing an inspection, NOT rewinding onto reels.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-18-2006 03:05 PM                     The last time I heard which was a few years back it was in excess of 1800 fpm but it may have been increased by now. Mark  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-18-2006 03:52 PM                    Thanks, Mark. Brad, Let me rephrase... How fast can that thing that the depot workers are inspecting film on wind film if they crank it up all the way?  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-18-2006 05:01 PM                        "Off the shelf" BHP Bi-Directional panel printers normally run at 960 feet per minute for release printing. Customized (proprietary) printers go up from there, and often "loop" the picture and sound negatives. Remember, as long as the printing negative has short pitch perforations (e.g., BH-1866) and the raw stock has long pitch perforations (e.g., KS-1870), a contact printer can be optimized to have almost no slippage, even at very high printing speeds.  |  IP: Logged Dominic Case Expert Film Handler Posts: 131 From: Sydney NSW Australia Registered: Aug 2003 posted 03-23-2006 01:04 AM                       quote: David Graham Rose True, but at what cost to quality? No-one here has produced any argument that relates printing speed to quality in any scientific way. As John points out, if the neg and the raw print stock have the correct pitch perforations (they do) and if they are transported around he printing sprocket with sufficiently well-controlled tension, then the film can travel almost as fast as a London bus (OK work that out ) without loss of quality. Slippage and steadiness aren't issues if the engineering is done properly, and the technology really is at a very sophisticated level nowadays.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 03-23-2006 04:05 AM                        one thing that i understand can't be done in a high-speed print job is color timing changes. so (presumably) the interpos or interneg is timed and the print is made one-light. that is sub-optimal, isn't it? (which is not to say that it would be done optimally even at a slower speed.) also, what about redeveloper splashing on a non-cyan track print? is that any more prone to happen the higher the speed? and raw-stock splices: more likely to be poorly aligned? i wouldn't think fogging would be any more frequent, but... is it?  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 03-23-2006 05:33 AM                     quote: Carl Martin one thing that i understand can't be done in a high-speed print job is color timing changes. so (presumably) the interpos or interneg is timed and the print is made one-light. that is sub-optimal, isn't it? (which is not to say that it would be done optimally even at a slower speed.) If the interneg is correctly timed (graded), either when it was made, or by doing it at a previous film element or digital stage, then there is no need for any light changes when making the release prints. There's nothing wrong with doing it that way, it makes far more sense to make the changes once, or a rew times, rather than hundreds, or thousands of times. Do high-speed continuous contact release printers even have the means to make scene by scene light changes? I've never seen one, but I would doubt it, because it wouldn't be necessaty, and because it would be difficult to do it at the high speed.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 03-23-2006 06:13 AM                        it works, in the sense that the colors are correct overall, but my understanding that this comes at a certain expense, but i don't know exactly what to call it. maybe to do with detail, contrast, and grain? let's say a scene was shot with normal exposure, but intended to be printed dark. if the interpositive is timed, then the range of densities in that shot will be compressed into the densest portion of the density "spectrum". then this is printed into the least dense portion on the internegative, then dense again onto the final print. whereas if the final print is timed then this tonal compression won't happen until the final step and will retain its detail, etc, better. now, i grant you that i don't really know what i'm talking about and certainly don't have the correct terminology for what i'm trying to say. also, my source for this explanation is a guy who doesn't always have his facts straight, but has spoken with great cinematographers about these things (many of you probably know who i'm talking about). it seems plausible to me. anyways, if i've got this all wrong, someone correct me. i'd also like to know the right terms for things. actually, my uncle used to be a color timer so i'd like to be able to pick his brain about this stuff.  |  IP: Logged

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