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Author Topic: Where are the screen speakers in these older AMCs? Lyle Romer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1400 From: Davie, FL, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 04-14-2006 06:07 AM                     In this picture (former AMC now Gator Cinemas in picture warehouse) the screen appears to be almost flush with the wall. You can see the exit doors on about the same plane. There are a few older AMC theatres that I have been to that are like this. I have been around the back of the buildings or seen the sides at some locations and there don't seem to be any protrusions. So, the question is, where are the screen speakers and how do they fit?  |  IP: Logged Thomas Dieter Expert Film Handler Posts: 234 From: Yakima, WA Registered: Jun 2004 posted 04-14-2006 12:06 PM                     If that theatre is anything like our theatre, they are behind the screen, unless the screen is flush with the wall. Our theatre as maybe 1.5' to 2' of a walk space. Very Cramped. Now one of our theatres has a sub, and that has a nice 3' - 4' walk space. Back when many of them were built, it was the idea to use as little space as possible for the theatre, and use the majority of it for the seating. Our theatre, you can see where the seats went up to he screen and other companys has removed them.  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-14-2006 10:37 PM                     AMC also sometimes puts the screen speakers above the screen, sometimes putting the bass bin below and the mid/high unit above and sometimes the whole thing above. The obvious clue is the non-perforated screen. This is a necessity with torus screens but they also do it in non-torus rooms if I recall correctly.  |  IP: Logged Iben Jimenez Film Handler Posts: 27 From: Cayey, PR, US Registered: Mar 2006 posted 04-14-2006 11:00 PM                     What is the purpose of torus screens and why they don't have perforations?  |  IP: Logged Thomas Dieter Expert Film Handler Posts: 234 From: Yakima, WA Registered: Jun 2004 posted 04-15-2006 01:36 AM                     The purpose of a Torus screen is to get the effect of a concave and convex screen. Not only is the screen curved from left to right, but it's curved from top to bottem as it has a vacuum behind it. That's why it has no holes in it. The speakers are also in the ceiling and on the walls. It allows for the focus of the screen to be almost perfectly on the sides and on the top and bottom. I don't know how many times I've tried to focus a concave screen on the top and bottom.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-15-2006 01:14 PM                       The placing of the speakers not only not behind the screen, but also separating the Low Freq and High Freq components of the speaker to the top and bottom of the screen is a severe compromise to the sound to pursue the idea of an improved picture. AMC has always been a company wiling to try ideas that were not conventional. Sometimes they work, mostly they don't. There have been a number of instances where the screen vacuum pump fails allowing the screen to droop like a used condom. Is that too graphic for a Saturday morning?  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-15-2006 01:31 PM                        So, Sam, they solved a minor picture problem and created horrendous sound problems, incl. echo. In high wind conditions, if there is any form of crack in the wall, the vacuum pump is overcome by wind pressure causing the "suck screen" to "blow" instead. Louis  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-15-2006 02:45 PM                       There a couple of instances where the behind screen area (sealed as it were)filled up with rain water and was not noticed until the air pump quit working complete with deflated screen.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 04-15-2006 04:49 PM                     In order for speech not to be impaired with above and below speaker location, the crossover over point has to be very low compared to a typical cinema speaker so as not to lose localization of the sound source; coaxial speaker designs work well in this situation. Aiming in a short room is also an issue. I have done a few rooms with solid Stewart Studio screens and one small room with a convex solid screen where we had good sound bouncing the sound off the screen surface  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-15-2006 07:13 PM                        Walking into a theatre to find Exits and stairs on one or both sides of the screen -- a theatre here in Brooklyn has a few rooms with Exits on only one side of the screen, forcing it to be painfully off-center -- aesthetically it's akin to walking into a 5 star restaurant and finding a dog turd next to your table. And those painted 2 inch plumbing pipes they are using for handrails at the exit stairs are a classy touch as well. (How's that for Saturday evening, eh Sam?)  |  IP: Logged Eric Robinson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 538 From: Santa Rosa, CA Registered: Jan 2005 posted 04-18-2006 11:32 PM                     Who ever invented and sold this craziness of vacuum formed screens?  |  IP: Logged Richard Hamilton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1341 From: Evansville, Indiana Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-19-2006 02:36 AM                     having never seen a room with a Torus screen, I'm curious if the picture quality is really that much better? Does anyone still install these? I can't imagine the nightmare the sound must be to set up. Can they even be set up to give the "illusion" that the sound is coming from behind the screen? quote: Richard Fowler I have done a few rooms with solid Stewart Studio screens and one small room with a convex solid screen where we had good sound bouncing the sound off the screen surface Thats interesting. where were the speakers? Mounted on the ceiling? Seems like it would be hard to aim the sound. quote: Eric Robinson Who ever invented and sold this craziness of vacuum formed screens? I think a guy who goes by L.J. (not Mr. Jennings) was heavily involved, but don't quote me on that, only something I heard years ago.  |  IP: Logged Jeffry L. Johnson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 809 From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-19-2006 10:39 AM                        Sigma Design Group Film Notes Issue #H-50-44 20th Anniversary/Torus screens/concessions lessons/Keep 'em coming back 2.35 Aspect Ratio Torus quote: This screen was developed by Gerald Nash (ray tracing), academy award winner anamorphic lens designer Glenn Berggren, and Don Stewart at the production end, under the firm name: Sigma Design.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-19-2006 11:10 AM                       The concept was that of Glenn Bergrenn (sp) then of Schneider Optics, and Larry Jacobson of AMC. There is even a patent on it. The idea is to have a flatter light field with no hot spots which allows higher light levels without strobing. I believe it is a gain screen to boot. I went to a demo in Burbank where they were running 28 Ft. Lts. instead of 16. Problem is, you could see matte shots and other imperfections not visible at normal light levels. Another problem is the screen acts like a parabolic reflector for sound such that a person sitting in say row 5 just off the aisle can hear the conversations of patrons on the other side of the room. After all, AMC's motto was "There is a Difference" As to sound, that's another entire chapter.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-19-2006 12:22 PM                     I once confronted Glen on this (sound versus picture) and he asked point-blank..."So you are willing to compromise the picture for the sound?" And I responded: "Absolutely." It isn't that the Torus screen doesn't work...it does and it is a fact with much doucmentation on the superior eveness in illumination with less lamp power than a traditional flat screen. However, its been a long time since silent movies were the norm in theatres. I will gladly compromise the picture a little to have sound eminate from behind the screen where it belongs. I am a big believer in the cylindrical curve screen (one dimension) to improve the light and, in my opinion, improve the perceived image. But the speakers still must reside behind the screen. Steve  |  IP: Logged

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