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Author Topic: Starting off with stereo sound Andrew McCrea Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 645 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Nov 2000 posted 05-11-2006 09:34 PM                        So, maybe its obvious that I'm (attempting) writing a business plan for a small town. I want to at first put stereo sound in, to cut back opening such a small theatre. As part of the "Future Services" section, I want to put things like, digital sound, nachos/hot dogs, and eventually a third screen. With a CP45 processor (chance to upgrade later), do you just need that running off the XLs soundhead, with two amps running the left and right channel behind the screen?  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 05-11-2006 10:47 PM                        I would go with a CP65 (or 55 if you cant find a used 65) and 4 2-Channel amplifiers Left Stage, Center Stage, Right Stage, Right Surround, Left Surround, and Sub. Even if you dont have sub, I find it easiest to wire in the amp and stage runs so that you can just drop the sub in later (you will need it for digital). Also, If you use a 55 that isnt modified for split surrounds I would still wire left and right surrounds on seperate amp channels and parallel the outputs from the 55 again, to make it easier to upgrade later. You can then (if you have a 65) drop in a DTS, DA20. If you wanted too you could add in a SDDS system (I dont know why you would want to...) as it hangs on the end of the processor and not have to modify the 55 (not the best option) With a 55 you can add the DTS or DA20 with a few modifications/upgrades. Also, dont forget about adding a DMA8 if you plan to do video/multimedia presentations.  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-13-2006 12:19 AM                     For "stereo" you need 3 screen channels minimum, a sub-bass and stereo surrounds are standard in cinemas as well. A CP45 is a good basic processor. The SR decoder is "true Dolby SR" and sounds much better than most competitors' SR emulation. It's complete, compact, and has basic EQ and screen channel 2-way electronic crossovers built in. You connect the stereo cells on the soundheads to the CP45 inputs and connect amps and speakers to the CP45 outputs. You also need some simple control logic and wiring to do sound changeovers. You don't need much anything else.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-13-2006 12:28 AM                     As spoiled as most movie viewers are to 5.1 surround sound, I would try really hard to get 5.1 playback in the chain as quickly as possible. I don't know if you're putting together a 1st run theater or a bargain/2nd run house or approaching a different niche. IMHO, DTS usually works fine for playback if you're a first run house and get the discs regularly. Unfortunately, after 1st run many of the CDs tend to disappear. You ask for "CDs" and the guy on the other end of the phone line is likely to say "CDs nuts!" If the discs would manage to stay with the print 100% of the time (or if the Hollywood studios would pull their heads out of their backsides and allow authorized theaters to download and burn DTS CD-ROM images to disc) then DTS would be a really great solution for 2nd run because of its great reliability on playback. But since the studios don't want to do anything that makes any bit of sense you're pretty much stuck with buying a Dolby Digital system and hoping the print is in good enough shape to keep the error rate on playback above an acceptable level to prevent dropouts to analog.  |  IP: Logged Matt Fields Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 545 From: Ohio, United States Registered: Jun 2005 posted 05-13-2006 12:39 AM                     My 2 cents...reguardless of your processor, bi-amp your stage speakers. - Matt  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-13-2006 04:26 AM                        quote: Dave Macaulay A CP45 is a good basic processor. The SR decoder is "true Dolby SR" and sounds much better than most competitors' SR emulation. are the quotes supposed to indicate that it is in fact not true dolby sr? for this would be the cat 222 "sr"/a card that nobody really likes, right?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-13-2006 08:15 AM                     Yup, the Cat 222 SR/A is not true SR but a dual "S" (consumer grade) and mistracks horribly. The best analog emulator to the Cat. 280 is the Panastereo CM353. The best digital emulator is the CP650 by far. In fact, all of the digital emulations I've heard of the SR system really do suck. If you want a good basic stereo system to start, the CSP1200 or CP650SR are my processors of choice. If you are planning on Dolby Digital later, the CP650SR makes the most sense...if you are planning on DTS Digital, then the CSP1200 is the better choice.  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-15-2006 09:56 AM                     Yes. The 222 is not equal to the cat280s but it sounds better than other emulators I've experienced. Sony isn't an option now (except for masochists, I guess) but the 3000 emulation was about the worst. I haven't come across an XD10P yet but the SR emulation could only be improved from the nasty 6AD. The problems with getting DTS disks on second run - basically it's a continuing hassle, yell enough and you get them for a while then they start going missing again - mean SRD is somehwat better. SRD data is more susceptible to damage than the DTS time code (nearly indestructible) but I haven't seen a lot of unplayable prints. If you're buying used equipment, a CP45 and DA20 (if you can find one) with a 70x/BACP or basement reader makes sense. New, the cost of a CP45 plus the DA20 is comparable to a CP650D which has better SR, is more flexible, and offers SMPTE/EBU digital inputs as an option. The CP650SR (no digital cards) is more than a CP45 but you get more, and the digital cards are less than a DA20. The Panastereo CSP1200 is a great unit. The SR is excellent with the Panastereo cards, the Smart 280 emulators are lots less excellent, or you can use real CAT280 cards if you have them. For SRD the cost gets up there with a CP650D if you add a DA20 though, and the 1200 doesn't have EX capability as far as I know (if you care about EX).  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 05-15-2006 12:25 PM                     The 222 just sounds too messy in the higher dynamics. If you're gonna stay serious about the possibility of digital the CP65 will be a good investment. Nice power supply & easy hookup with a DA-20. Ours' drives a full 3 channel set of Klipsch Lascala behind the screen off QSC USA-900 amps & the analog sounds better than some of the digital systems in the new multiplexes. Ultra Stereo made a JS model that could do stereo front w/ surrounds, but I've never heard it installed. Front-surround with the right speakers & proper EQ will fool plenty everyday-folks into thinking you've got digital, if they even care. Just try to get a good sounding setup that doesn't swallow any huge dynamic gaps.  |  IP: Logged Matt Fields Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 545 From: Ohio, United States Registered: Jun 2005 posted 05-15-2006 12:42 PM                     Here's what I did at my small town theatre and I think it sounds okay: 1. Bought a used CP 55. 2. Bought BACP sound reader. 3. Mod #1 to CP 55: Replaced Cat 221 with Cat. 441 for split surrounds. 4. Mod #2 to CP 55: Added SRA 5 with Cat 280t cards and modified diodes to make 03 setting SR. This can found in the DA 20 manual here on film-tech. 5. Added DTS 6. This was relatively inexpensive to do because I got good deals on the DTS and the SR cards. I wanted 6 track digital sound with a good SR backup at a low cost. You can buy all this stuff and have the mods made for way less then a CP650. Be patient and shop around for good deals.  |  IP: Logged Ian Price Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1714 From: Denver, CO Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-15-2006 04:04 PM                     Andrew, quote: If I had it to do over, I'd have saved-up a little longer and started with the top system, but that's just because I am kind of a sound nut... at the time I had to balance my economic situation with my huge desire to get us into the 20th century, soundwise. Mike Blakesley This is a quite common emotion when buying anything. Most times when you make that compromise at the beginning, you're stuck with it for a long, long time. quote: Buy the better tool! Uncle Don  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-15-2006 07:23 PM                     Surround EX on the Pana is easy...use the Pana SP23...in fact, if you don't have CP650, use the Pana SP23...it is the best one out there...it even has meters on the front for calibration and is offered with 1/3rd octave EQ. So even for just 5.1 audio, the SP23 offers 1/3-octave EQ. As emulators go, the Pana CM353 is definately the best...some claim superior to the Cat 280. I agree that the Sony SR emulation is horrid as is DTS' 6AD. Im not a fan of the JSD-80/XD-10P's SR emulation though it is better than the 6AD's and Sony's. The only digital SR that I've liked is the CP650s...it is suprising very good.  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 05-16-2006 12:50 PM                     I agree with Steve on the CP650, it does sound richer on all fronts compared to earlier digital processors. We're on a 6-AD in our big house now, I wish Reading would have never installed it. If all goes well, it might migrate up to our smallest auditorium one day & SRD would replace it. As far as I know, we have the only SA-10 setup with DTS in town, unless Regal installed one at some point, even if nobody gets to use it frequently. In case you run into them, the older Smart stereo units, which only measure a fraction of the rack space of other processors, do well for small auditoriums. I'd rather have an Ultra Stereo or CP-50/55 for the EQ capabilities, but our front-surround Smart is a basic, decent unit, even on one amp. They appear to be the only original sound equipment, so they've lasted.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-17-2006 02:52 PM                     If you're going to do analog then you should do it right. You can get really good-sounding results. For analog, I would go with a CP-650SR or a CP-65. And here's where I return to my role as insensitive prick... My fear is that if your budget is driving you to compromise in the rack, then you'll probably compromise in the room, too. And, you know what? Those compromises tend to be permanent. And I'm not just talking about the loudspeakers. What is your plan as far as isolation and reverberation, for instance? Dollars to donuts: no moveable masking..?  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 05-17-2006 03:22 PM                  Manny! Glad to see you back here! ...AND you're still not insensitive!  |  IP: Logged

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