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Author Topic: Proper/Improper use of FilmGuard Christopher Meredith Expert Film Handler Posts: 126 From: Jackson, MS, USA Registered: Apr 2006 posted 05-28-2006 03:51 PM                        The following is from an email that filtered down to a large number of Regal theaters from a higher-up in REG tech services: quote: EDIT: Quote removed Obviously, you're not supposed to have FG dripping off the pads and running onto the equipment, let alone running down the port glass. But I apply FG quite liberally and that water streaking appearance only happens for the first run (a fact noted in the instructions). When doing this, I always run the print through it once before paying customers see it (also noted in the instructions). Also, I don't recall the FG instructions recommending doubling up the gate bands. In fact, I have found that using FG will actually improve the presentation in houses that have image stability problems and have not had to adjust the gate tension due to use of FG. [ 06-05-2006, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Christopher Meredith ]  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 05-28-2006 04:19 PM                     Some people are confusing "saturate" with the word "submerge". The author of that note above is correct that there is no reason to literally DUNK the media pads into a container of FilmGuard. The pictures in the instruction sheets show pressing the tip of the sprayer nozzle up against the pads, which is the proper way to apply the product. The pads do need to be "saturated" (not submerged) so that the application is even however. Otherwise there will be lubricated and non-lubricated sections of the print. (This means part of the print will still suffer from static issues as well as will not benefit from the scratch protection, cleaning and image improvement benefits that FilmGuard offers.) However if the product is literally dripping off of the cleaning machine, then there is definitely too much being applied. (Most certainly due to "dunking" the pads immediately prior to running the show.) As far as the streaking issue goes, that's just a fact of life for the first application run. Placing the film cleaner on the platter, rather than the top of the projector (which is how I am assuming this example was being handled) does help reduce the streaks. However for some reason there are lots of techs who don't like that idea for reasons of which have never been told to me (and that I can't even come up with on my own). I am assuming the theater example mentioned above was applying FilmGuard to a public show on a new print, rather than pre-screening the film the night before and applying the product then. Putting aside the obvious issue of there potentially being a lab problem with one of the reels that would never get noticed without a pre-screening (but would be presented to the paying customers), there is a trick to drastically reducing the "liquid lines" on that first application performance for theaters that do not prescreen their films the night before for whatever reason. That trick is simply to load up the cleaner the day before and "saturate" (not submerge or dunk) the media, then let it sit until the next day. This will result in streaks that are not as visible on screen, yet the media will still provide an even application. I plan on putting this into the next batch of instruction sheets. On picture jumping, there are two projectors out there that can be overly sensitive to FilmGuard. The #1 offender is some Christie projectors, and is what the instructions were based off of...however it does not affect ALL Christie projectors. For example, I used to work at the UA Galaxy in Dallas, and their gates were extremely sensitive to the product, such that the modification needed to be done. However go across town to the UA MacArthur and nothing needed to be done. These two theaters were only built a few years apart as well. The second troublesome model is some later model Simplex projectors. I witnessed this problem first hand close to the opening of the AMC Mesquite 30, yet go to another AMC in town built a couple of years before or after and the problem is nonexistant. I have yet to find another projector that has had any issue with FilmGuard. The reason the tip went into the instructions was because the Christie projector apparently has more people with the issue than those who don't. (The Christie gate tension spring will also tend to break or remain permanently bent if left at 4 or 5 for any length of time, especially with large xenons behind it.) As such, the modification works magnificently on those troublesome models and is a permanent fix. It has been a number of years now, so it is quite possible that Christie has taken care of the pinhole placement problem of their bands by now too. (If your Christie projector cannot run a "dry" print at a setting of 1 steadily, then your machines definitely have that problem.) Remember a little bit goes a very long way. Only one quart of FilmGuard if used per the instructions will clean an 8 plex for one month. Hope that helps.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 05-28-2006 07:29 PM                     This shows that the REG people need to create an insert in their Booth Operations manual on the correct procedure of using Film-Guard - in booths that have the Kelmar cleaners and media available .. with instructional pictures on proper ways to how to saturate the media rolls. Then, REG should impliment this procedure in their booth certification policies..in the Level 1 section. With this, this will ensure that all booth personnel for REG and others will be on the same page of Film-Guard film cleaning procedures..and prevents any discrepency in booth operations..to make things simple. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 05-28-2006 08:06 PM                     Lightly spraying? What good is that? That seems like it'd be more likely to drip onto wire conduits that way. I've always held the nozzle against the new media rolls & sprayed until the entire roll became obviously saturated. Century machines seem to have an easier time running & cleaning without noticeable streaking, while I've too confirmed some issues with Christies while I worked for Marcus.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 05-28-2006 08:31 PM                        Curious... I've never had problems with Brad's instruction sheet. Applied as directed, the product has always performed as indicated. Interesting that the REG guy is sending forth directives on the proper use of the product, even though he's admitted to not reading the instructions himself.  |  IP: Logged Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 05-28-2006 09:11 PM                        Yes, the day before saturation works for us. No streaking visable on the first screening. Brad, the projector mounted cleaner is because some the screenings are off the Eprad MUT while others are off the platter, so the print can go through the cleaner from either. A second machine is contemplated - one mounted on the platter, one on the MUT. While there isn't a problem (Century projector), it is low on the priority list.  |  IP: Logged Keith Peticolas Expert Film Handler Posts: 108 From: Eagle River, Alaska, USA Registered: Aug 2001 posted 05-28-2006 09:42 PM                     This is more of a testament to why Regal booths suck. And why I refuse to go to our local Regal craphouses. FG and the platter rings, where usable, should be required equipment in every booth. And proper training for use of both. Dripping down the gear and splashing on the port glass is unexcusable.  |  IP: Logged Chris Hipp Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1462 From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas) Registered: Jul 2003 posted 05-28-2006 10:08 PM                     quote: Although I have not read the instructions sent with the solution, I understand that the soaking method is the recommended by the supplier, and it is also recommended that gate bands should be doubled up in the event the film jumps excessively, and both of these methods should be ignored and common sense should be applied. Perhaps common sense should be applied when sending out a chain wide email. If you are going to tell people to ignore the intstructions then you should READ them yourself first. Typical example of a corporate retard. I can confirm the problems with the simplex projectors. The projectors that we had were technically identical to the strong 1060 model but they were stamped as 'millenium." Of all the AMCs I have been to I have only seen this at one location. The millenium models have a much different film gate. Anyway, they would jump on us like crazy for about the first two, sometimes three shows. Sometimes it was so bad that I would have to pull off the soaked pads and put dry ones on to stop the jumping.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 05-28-2006 10:28 PM                     I've never had any probs with the Mils on using FG - maybe stepping up the tension for the first two shows (course, my FG applications aren't that wet as normal..), then stepped the tension back to "1" .. ...and also heard that wiping the bands and runners with FG during the night cleaning sequences with a cotton swab stick helps out things as well. In my defense for REG when I used to be employed with this company in 2002: that I did demonstrate proper FG media usage methods to the other booth members - on not how to soak the living crap out of the media rolls, but just spray enough FG to make the media rolls look completely wet since a usual 2hr print would only take up so much media that such a good complete spray was good enough. Film was treated, no drip, splatters and the Kelmar machines managed to stay clean as well... thx_monte  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 05-28-2006 10:48 PM                     Marcus' head booth tech also had some reservations on the streaking issues when we started using FG in 2002. I'm unsure of what became of those reservations as I only worked there for about four months at the start of the test runs at Rosemount.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 05-28-2006 11:45 PM                     Monte, that's yet another trick that I do believe is mentioned in the instructions... If using Film-Tech brand media, the rolls are plenty long to cut into halves for long movies (Harry Potter types) and thirds for shorter movies (100 minute comedy types). Not only does this give the theater more rolls per box, but it uses less FilmGuard because you are only loading up as much media as you need to get through the show. Any excess media on the rolls simply soaks up the FilmGuard and gets wasted (media AND FilmGuard, that is). Kelmar also puts a good amount of media on their rolls, but you don't get the coupling cores, nor are they recyclable for more media stock. Sure it takes a little bit of effort from a booth guy to cut and roll them up, but seriously, surely these guys can devote a few minutes once a week to the task. (Chris - I thought AMC got that weirdness fixed with that particular set of Simplexes at Mesquite??? The other AMCs in town, as well as other Simplex houses don't have that problem.)  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 05-29-2006 12:52 AM                     Brad, I do agree with you totally since I did read the instructions..AFTER I was told about this Film-Tech site, in 2002. Yet, Film-Guard was introduced to me the year before, in early 2001 by my good tekkie friend, Mark Gulbrandsen. He told me all about the substance on how well it preserves the film and makes the filmpath run so much smoother. I ordered a bottle from GTS (where he was working with at the time) and tried the substance out with his instruction of soaking the media rolls to the core so that the substance can last throughout a few passes. It was shortly after the introduction, that I figured out on my own that I could do the limitation of saturation on the media..and cut down the media to fit the feature length to save on the media itself. When, I was introduced to the Film-Tech site in the summer of 2002 by Mark, is when I noticed the compound being advertised and being sold with the instuctions as you mentioned. This is where I noticed in the instructions of the same tricks of saving the rolls that I was already using and been practicing the year before.. ..just a fascinating coinsidence that occured. thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged David Ingalsbe Film Handler Posts: 31 From: Eagan, MN, USA Registered: May 2004 posted 05-29-2006 03:29 AM                     The Regal folks love the film guard that does not meen that we drink it with our eggs. I to work for Regal and we have been useing film guard for 5 year with no problems. On the first run with my millenium heads I have to turn the tension up to 2 or 3 but after the first run it goes right back to 1 or 2. The cut in half trick works well to when i have time because the take up roll does not get so large so the media advances slower.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-29-2006 08:08 AM                     Brad, I think this does show that the word "saturate" is confusing to a lot of people. Certainly it has come up here on F-T before. It might be worth changing the wording to avoid confusion. After all, even if 90% of the readers understand it right on the first try, shouldn't it be 99%? --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 05-29-2006 03:48 PM                    If the word saturate confuses you, then I don't think you should be working with expensive, heavy machinery. The instructions are crystal clear to me and everone I know who actually took the time to READ them.  |  IP: Logged

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