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Author Topic: Kinoton ST200 Platter problem Michael Harlow Expert Film Handler Posts: 170 From: Faversham, Kent, UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 08-08-2006 02:53 PM                     I quick enquiry for you all, I have a Kinoton ST200 platter system and just recently I have noticed that 3 plates on "pay out" will all run at different speeds and at times brainwrap, this happens on all 3 plates, take up is good with no problems on each plate. I have got a new "module" but the problem remains, so I am guessing that plates are running too fast, so my question is can these platters be re-timed? or perhaps the motors need new brushes... Just trying to get an idea before we call someone in. Thanks for your time  |  IP: Logged Ken McFall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 615 From: Haringey, London. Registered: Apr 2001 posted 08-08-2006 04:28 PM                     The plates cannot be timed individually as they all run from the same variac which is in the control box.In the same way, the take-up for all plates is controlled from the variac mounted under the middle plate. You seem to have confirmed the motors are in themselves ok so the fault would appear to be in the control box. I would suggest you open the control box and check the gear box and motor that controls the pay out speed. I assume you have checked the module for correct setting of the micro switches. Some modules have marks on them to indicate at which point the micro switches will activate. Press the Re-Set button on the control box. Then with the take-up arm tied back and one plate set to take-up and another set to pay-out run the projector which should start the pay-out plate at it's full speed. Make sure the module arm is in the middle position. Now move the arm to the right and you will hear a relay and a timer relay activate. You should notice an immediate slight drop in pay-out plate speed. After 3 seconds the motor on the variac will start to move the wiper and will slow the pay-out plate down further. Keep it to the right for a few seconds to slow the plate down. If you wait long enough the plate should slow down to a crawl at which point you should hear the relays drop out as the limit switch is activated. Move the arm back to the middle and the motor on the variac will stop and the plate will now remain at the new slower speed. Move the module arm to the left and you should again hear a relay and a timer relay activate. There will be an imediate slight increase in speed. After three seconds the motor on the variac will start to move the wiper and increase the speed of the pay-out plate. Hold the arm there and the speed will continue to rise up to it's max at which point you should hear the relays drop out as the limit switch is activated. Do this a few times to satisfy yourself that everything is working as it should. If everything works as described then the control box would appear to be working correctly. Otherwise check the following: Try swapping the diode card in the control box with a known good card. If you don't have a new spare try swapping with the make-up table. There is also a large green resistor fitted beside the diode card in the control box which is worth checking. Can't remember the details of it I'm afraid. The timer relay in the control box controls the delay before the variac motor is activated. If found to be faulty it can be taken out of circuit and still allow near normal operation while you wait for a spare. If it is suspect short the normally open contact on the top. This removes the delay before the variac motor starts so it responds to movement of the module arm immediately. If you suspect the variac motor you should check the gearbox is firmly mounted and the linkage between gearbox shaft and variac, two pins thru the shaft, are intact. Hope this helps you locate the problem. The ST200 is possibly the most reliable and stable non-rewind there is. The only electronics to be found are on the diode card, the rest being basic electro mechanical which accounts for its reliability and stability. Many of the original 'piano key' control units are still running well, I have a new set of the 'piano switches' if anyone is interested. If you still have problems email me and we can chat directly. Regards.  |  IP: Logged Michael Harlow Expert Film Handler Posts: 170 From: Faversham, Kent, UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 08-08-2006 04:55 PM                     Wow, Thanks Ken, I will go and check all of this out and come back to you. Many thanks, Michael.  |  IP: Logged Michael Harlow Expert Film Handler Posts: 170 From: Faversham, Kent, UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 08-20-2006 10:05 AM                     Hi, just thought i'd come back and report on what is going on with my platter. Ok, I have tried what has been suggested and am happy that the modules are working correctly, although i feel that possibly the timer has failed, because the platter is responding as soon as the module tells it to, thus it is running it is constantly speeding itself up and then has to correct itself immediately by slowing itself down, and it does this all the way through the show, until it gets "bored" and then brain wraps normally because it is going either to fast or slow, will dig around futher and report back. Michael  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-20-2006 12:19 PM                       Ken's covered the whole operation nicely. I'd agree, if the payout variac control motor is responding immediately to the excursions of the payout fingers, the delay relay's at fault. You might also tighten all the terminal block connections inside the control box. These can become loose over a period of time, and can be the source of all kinds of anomalies.  |  IP: Logged Ken McFall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 615 From: Haringey, London. Registered: Apr 2001 posted 08-20-2006 04:02 PM                     Thanks for the update.... From what you have described it sounds like the delay timer is either set to a very low delay, normally 3 seconds, or there was a problem some time in the past and it was taken out of circuit pending repair or the contacts are fused together. While the lack of a delay is not as designed it should not in its self cause a wrap around. Check that the module switches allow for about 1 1/2" of movement between switching states in the middle of their travel. If not then the module will be switching constantly back and forth. As for the delay relay, is it making any sound at all? Remember there will be an immediate small change in speed, up or down, as the arm hits a switch which is normal. It's only after the delay that the overall speed is adjusted as required. You do need to make sure of the correct operation of the control panel and not be confused by the immediate small change in speed. If the delay relay is not working at all then you would have no speed control either up or down. So clearly the contacts on the delay relay are being switched or they are fused or I said earlier they have been taken out of circuit. Finally, it sounds like you have no wrap around protection fitted. This is a BIG MISTAKE that you need to sort out as soon as possible. Don't rely on any alarm system you may have fitted on your FP20. By the time it shuts the show down its too late and damage to film, wall mounted rollers and the projector is a real risk. One bad wrap around prevented will more than pay for a wrap sensor. I can advise you on an excellent one thats not that expensive..... NOT the Kinoton roller which has no travel to allow for the projector to slow down and stop. We have spoken on the phone this evening and have agreed some things for you to check. I look forward to hearing how its all gone. Regards Ken.  |  IP: Logged

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