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Author Topic: Someone at Technicolor is trying to kill me Christopher Meredith Expert Film Handler Posts: 126 From: Jackson, MS, USA Registered: Apr 2006 posted 08-25-2006 08:58 AM                        Okay, so I'm building up "Invincible" yesterday. I was using a Kelmar RTV-8500 rewind bench with the automatic lever/arm removed and with a stationary roller mounted at the film counter mount to "flange bind" the film as it is going over from the shipping reels. I have the (enormous) trailer package on the house reel and I am running R1 onto it at full speed. It's getting right up to the end of the reel and I am standing there with my hand on the speed knob when all of a sudden I hear an incredible BANG and something goes whizzing just past my face. When I get my wits about me, I notice that the tail has broken about 12" from the end and is still attached to the core, and the roller that was mounted at the film counter mount is... missing. Apparently, someone who handled R1 of this print of INvincible wrapped the tail of the film around a piece of plastic and slid it into the core to prevent it from disengaging when the tail ran out. What's more, the force of the film pulling tight actually sheared off the screw that was holding the roller in place and the roller went flying, missing my face by about an inch, and embedded itself into the ceiling. Needless to say, I am extremely pissed off. Why would someone make such an effort to prevent the tail from releasing from the reel? What is the purpose of that? And has anyone ever had a roller do something like this? I tried to reproduce the situation using broken rollers and a heavy stick and I couldn't get a mounting screw to shear off like that no matter what I tried. Anyway, I'd love your feedback. Who should I tell about this to make sure it never happens again to anyone else? ...and check out the pics: In this last pic, you can see the scene in context. It took a few hours to get the camera and in the mean time, I put a new roller where the first one was. YOu can still see the first one stuck in the ceiling.  |  IP: Logged Cory Isemann Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 500 From: White Plains, MD, USA Registered: Jun 2004 posted 08-25-2006 09:17 AM                         |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 08-25-2006 10:05 AM                     I dont know how you all do things, but, I have a good look at the shipping reels before I start building the print, AND I never go flying at high speed all the way to the end of the reel. Sure, I've had broken reels in the past, but have never had one disintigrate on the rewind. Glad you didnt get hurt. Too bad your rewind got damaged. Polyestar film stock is so unforgiving!  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-25-2006 10:27 AM                        Fastening the end of the film to the core in a way that cannot come free is not normal practice at the labs and exchanges. Any chance the print is coming from a previous theatre that ran it as a preview? That plastic material the end of the film is wrapped around looks like a piece of scrap material.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-25-2006 12:02 PM                     I had a print (lab new) of Brokeback Mountain that had a similar thing done to it on the very last reel. When I was running that reel off (at full speed on a Christie AW3) when it came to the jammed core, it snapped off the lower roller on the MUT, ripped the reel in half, and pulled the MUT hard against the platter disk. I was NOT amused. As far as TES trying to actually 'kill' someone, I think Rachel still has dibs on that claim... -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-25-2006 02:04 PM                     Yea, when I get my prints from BOTH depots, I always look in the core slot area and see how the ends look like when shoved in the slot. If questionable, I take apart the reel, grab the scissors and snip off any of that ugly stuff, reassemble the reel before it goes on the MUT. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: California, U.S.A. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 08-25-2006 02:50 PM                     I've seen that once or twice before. And I believe someone else on this forum (Jack Ondracek maybe?) had a tail secured that way as well. My latest Tech. fiasco is the SEALED cans for or print of Invincible didn't contain a reel 2. I shudder to think Technicolor of all people is pirating films!  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-25-2006 03:24 PM                        Geez, Chris, that is wild. And yah, glad you didn't get hurt. I would sure make a formal complaint to TES if this print hadn't come from any other theatre. Let me ask you though, why take off the control arm & roller? And I see the statiionary roller is located at a place where there is this metal thingy on my table -- is it that what it is there for? I always wondered what it's purpose was. Also, I see you have two splicers. Is one for Fox Sprocket prints (4trk Mag)? I have been looking to find if Newmade ever made their model for Fox sprocket holes. At any rate, do be careful....check out those cores and the reels as well before you start peeling out on that rewind. I got a very serious sliced hand due to a plastic reel that was broken, but the two pieces were mated in such a way that I didn't realize it was broken. The thing was going at a good clip and I slowed it down with the control knob but instinctively I put my fingers on the reel and at that moment the two pieces separated and my fingers couldn't have been cut more if it was a knife slicing across them. I always thought Kelmar really missed the boat with their design -- it would have been much better and quite easy if they had attached that articulated arm directly to a control reheostate so that it would keep an even tension throughtout the entire wind instead of a steady speed with puts much more tension at the ends of the wind than at the beginning. I always try to make the speed adjustment manually, slowing it down so the feed reel stays at a steady speed instead of taking off as it get's closer to the end. And as for rewind projectiles, anyone ever use a split reel where one of flanges detaches and goes hurling off the spindle and flys across the room like spinning blade of a slicing machine. You really don't want to be in the way of THAT thing!  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-25-2006 03:49 PM                     Guys, this was the fault of the REEL, not anything intentional. TES a number of years back came up with the worst reel design of all time as is pictured below. THAT is the cause of the problem. Essentially, if the reel is assembled "per spec" (such that the slit in the core is lined up with the cutout in the flange), this can and does happen. The only way to be able to use these reels is to intentionally mount them 180 degrees out of spec to the core. As if that isn't bad enough, this reel design is the worst ever in regards to the flanges flying off. I'm sure everyone has one of these godamn things in a print can somewhere. You can simply look at it yourself to see what I am talking about. Essentially the two plastic pieces that mount through the hole in the core convert the reel into one of those old Super 8mm reels with the "catch" in them for the auto-rewinding projectors. If you take a close look at the original image that was posted above (and I have re-posted below), you will see where that part of the reel busted off and created this "catch" I am speaking of. It's a horrible design and should've been taken out of circulation years ago. Not everyone has the ability to be there as the reel tails out for a variety of reasons (a major one being a rushed buildup job due to "security" screenings), and as a result this is a dangerous reel design for the safety of the people, the film and even the projectors (for people who run reel to reel).  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-25-2006 05:53 PM                     Frank, The Neumade 35CS splicer does exist as I have sold one (about 3-years ago to the AFI/Silver) and have laid my hands on about 1/2-dozen of them over the years. The North Carolina School for the Arts has three of them! I believe the Splycemar (Tokyo Seiki) people even have it pictured somewhere...nope just checked...they don't picture that one. But really, it does exist as a special order item. Complete with a "special price" too!  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-25-2006 10:06 PM                     Although I should hardly be considered an official spokesperson for Technicolor Distribution, I did hear from Tim Burke who has always been a pleasure to deal with on this issue and he reported that due to this event, they are immediately pulling these style reels from normal use and will keep them set aside to only be used in an emergency situation if they are absolutely out of the other style reels. Pretty impressive if you ask me. That took less than one business day's worth of discussing from them to get action taken! I can't think of any other company that has acted so quickly and with concern to theater level issues such as this. Now if only ETS/Deluxe Film Services would stop using those godamn "fox boxes" rather than cans. I swear my back is going to give out on me from that uneven distribution of weight as I carry those things up and down the stairs! (They would be fine if they were 4 reel boxes instead of 7 and 8 reel boxes.)  |  IP: Logged Matt Fields Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 545 From: Ohio, United States Registered: Jun 2005 posted 08-26-2006 12:15 AM                     Seems like all I am getting lately is the damn fox boxes  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 08-26-2006 03:20 AM                     What's a 'Fox box'?  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-26-2006 03:30 AM                     remember the early "FOX box" that was a lift top box that had to use snugstraps to keep them closed? Got a few of those from the depot when they were chucking them ...to store 16mm films in. What really sucked is when "Gods and Generals" came out - "dang!" - two of those 8 reel boxes to huck down the stairs....almost 150 lbs, but at least you were balanced...lol .. Not as bad as those damnable 6k plastic reel shipping units that WB and NewLine played with a few years ago - looked like 70mm shipping cans. - Monte  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 08-26-2006 08:37 AM                        I have had the secret surprise when breaking down the old TES reels. I wind at full speed, starting off slow so everything snugs up fine, then full, and then slow down the last, maybe 3 feet. It came to a sudden, and loud stop, but not exploded, probably because I slowed down, and not just let it run out at full. Never really had a reel explode on me, but I have had one of the flanges come disconnected from the core, and go twirling in the air like a helicopter. Same type of reel too. Now only if you can talk TES into delivering on wensdays rather than thursdays. And cans? I prefer the stackable plastic cans. You know, the ones that don't want to close fully. They're easier to carry, and I've learned how to get them closed without beating them into submission, usually. [ 08-26-2006, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Charles Greenlee ]  |  IP: Logged

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